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A Blog about why you should not live in ArizonaWhat this blog is about

The purpose of this website is to serve as a place for me to vent my dissatisfaction with living in AZ and my quest to move from this place. The reasons I don’t care to live in Arizona is detailed in the categories above.

I am not trying to change your mind about moving to Arizona, but I will tell you why I don’t want to live here.

If you live in Arizona and love it, good for you! You have found something in the desert positive which I cannot!

What this blog is NOT about

This site has nothing to do with government, politics, immigration, etc! This site is based upon opinions backed by articulated facts, and I purposely stay away from politics.

Arizona is one of the most depressed places in the United StatesWhy NoArizona?

I realized there are others out there who feel trapped in the Arizona desert. Do you fall in this category? I hope you will share your stories about the Arizona experience.

Specifically, this site deals with the issues involved within the deserts of the Phoenix area. For those in the northern areas of Arizona, this isn’t about you! It’s beautiful up there. Although it’s not as lush with greenery as I’m used to, it’s still very nice. The northern mountains of Arizona is one of the few escapes from the desert within driving distance.

Whether you choose to defend Arizona, or share my sentiment with living in Arizona, thank you for reading! All opinions are welcome!

Read the blog, and you’ll learn the truth about life in Arizona! Be sure to take our online polls!


No Arizona provides inside knowledge of life in ArizonaStay connected!

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457 thoughts on “Home

  1. marysparacinobortel says:

    I LOVE this blog! Arizona definitely has it’s good points, but it’s just not for some people…ie, you and me! I’ve been here 20 years and can’t call it home. I can’t wait to get the #@$! out and never look back! All I need is MONEY! LOL!!!

    • No Arizona says:

      Thanks for reading, and for your kind words! I’m in the same situation…money is keeping me here, too. Feel free to comment and chime in on your “Arizona experience”!

      • marysparacinobortel says:

        Ok, I will! Oh, and by the way…a scorpian was in my kitchen the other night! I hate those little F$#@!!!$ They look like demons! Yes, I will be out of this hell hole as soon as I’m able! 20 years is 20 years TOO LONG ALREADY!!

      • No Arizona says:

        Scorpions are the creepiest of the creepy-crawlies. Glad you didn’t get stung!

      • dave says:

        Weather that keeps you locked in ten months a year.Neighbors who will not even wave,much less speak,after living in the same house for ten years. More cheapskate employers per capita than anywhere else,A cost of living proportionate to the pathetic wage scale double that of Chicago. The rudest,most offensive,most law scoffing drivers in the west(even worse in bad weather)Being forced to learn a foreign language in your own country just to get a decent job,gun crazy militias,a pathetic city government(Tucson) ribbon cutter,toothless mayor,and a general attitude that this is still a cow town,and governed that way. People stuck here can’t afford to live,can’t afford to leave. Economic hostages.That is what you get when your city is run by a used car salesman(you know who i mean) It took me two decades but I have saved enough. I am gone!!!!

    • Em Eazy says:

      ARIZONA SUCKS!!!!!

      • noname says:

        Reading all the nice things that have been said about the State of AZ,well I hate to tell you, the whole country is consumed with identical problems. Yes, Identical. Poverty, crime, drugs, stupid people, weather problems, disgusting bugs and rodents the size of cats in some places. I’ll tell you living in a place where its below 40 degrees half the year is no fun either. Trash, yes this country has a problem with keeping itself clean. People who come from other countries, refuse to learn english and hate Americans, they are all over.I can make a list of more than ten reasons to leave any state. However, I wouldn’t want to be in any other country. Simply having the “right” to blow off steam here will get you killed in other parts of the world. I hope all of you find your happy place. Im still searching. Everywhere I look there are problems, big ones. Its not just Arizona. I could get into detail but its a mute point. Good luck to us all.

      • Olivia fink says:

        People are strange. Some nice, if you are lucky, I live near luke afb….they are the snit guest hers here. The older retired guys are tops. They can’t Stanton the arrogance of theses new guys…aren’t the the same group? Can’t even say hi walking down the sidewalk.

      • Rene Bataglia says:

        Yes it does. I am dealing with major depression from living here. The landscape is so ugly and barren. Life without trees is not normal. If there is anyone who would like to talk, please email me at renebataglia@gmail.com We can exchange phone numbers there.

    • I lived in Phoenix for 30 years and while working in LA this summer this happened!

      That’s an Arizona farewell if I ever got one!!!!

      • mark poweell says:

        i moved from michigan in 2013 the most worst time ive had in phoenix the health insurance plans are sucked up by telling you well thats what you get be happy and deal with it im in pain with health problems if you are a 54 year old person to keep happy is impossible in hud housing also there is a misuse of programs and the people that abuse themget away with any and all they can mostly hispanics milkng the system of good tax paying people and as well all other ethnicities dont help much ,, i am moving to payson in june but i have to say that all the complaints ive seen and witnessed are like no proper consience of peoples feelings for one on the tops of list they are rude and non careing enough after 3 years it feels like living in a air conditioned prison the african american folks take in there mind to spread rumors that arent very honest to be your neighbor living in low income aortments make you feel degrated if and when you complain nothing is done these people that manage the housing are 9 to 430 clock watchers that do the smallest amount of work and expect to be paid for what they do , for instance they cannot keep a manager at washigton mannor do to the people living here they quit get fired or hud just dont care how they manage at all drugs pills are sold like the corner candy store the idiotic things that people are doing where i live in most apartment comunities would and should be kicked out of the system but nor the managment and hud seem to just not seem to gve a shit so i know much has not changed in michigan do to economic issues it still was a better place to live and at least half of this community is supposed to be a no crime area is a rediculous so moving anywhere in the usa is rough and calous phoenix is the worst place ive seen and will be for a long time i lable this area as the wild ghetto west and are never going to stop until we get people in are government entities like the harassed and critisized mr trump will have alot of problems that wont and cannot be fixed even in a 8 year term so well the story lineis instead of complaining think reaallly hard the next time you vote because you dont matter and the rich well just dont care

    • Johnboat says:

      I understand we are close to Utah. But living in Arizona sucks because of the LDS church. Now I am not a hitler but the LDS CHURCH IS CORRUPT. As seen in those small towns near the border of Utah the people have been denied water,electric, and police support because they are not members of the church. That is a colt not a religious organization. I know it isn’t the same all around Arizona but in slightly smaller towns like snowflake, showlow, and especially saint johns there is a large segregation presence. Also when your kids reach a certain age the friends that they have who are Mormon say the aren’t allowed to have play dates anymore because it’s against their church. Seriously, I don’t think your kid is going to go to hell if he hangs out with a non Mormon. I understand Arizona has many problems but this is one of the more significant ones.

      • Tyler Head says:

        That is simply not true. The LDS church doesn’t control the power grid, water, or politics. We only make up around 6% of the population. In addition, I don’t know where this idea that LDS children aren’t allowed to play with non Mormons. There are a few bad apples in every bunch, don’t get me wrong, but your comment is not based on reality. I apologize for any bad experiences you have had with church members, but I ask that you don’t spread false information about us every chance you get.

  2. katina says:

    This is full of win. Desert rats unite

  3. Michael T says:

    I love AZ, but there are definitely some places that I think I’d rather live!

  4. Chuck Norris aka Admin at AzSucks says:

    You guys are all a bunch of helpless losers… If “money” is the reaon why you stay in a place that you hate then you are simply a moron, end of story. I cant imagine staying anywhere I hated, yet creating a blog because I am so bent out of shae about it but would not move due to “money” .. Give me a break, you will be miserable your entire life until you take a stand and start living it for yourself. Or you can just continue to complain about how horrible everything is to you in hopes that others will agree and make you feel better… pathetic…

    well, at least you are not nearly as immature and childish as the person who runs Azsucks.org… its really sad that he links your blog at the top of his as a “friend of azsucks”… at least your site is somewhat mature, and actually hits on some interesting points… you actually seem like an adult, while azsujcks is child play.. you should do yourself a favor and not unite with him, that’s site future is doomed.

    • Toni says:

      money…..the ONLY reason……you either come from money, live with your parents still or have no children to worry about. If you try to state otherwise, then your not being truthful. Sorry to say, you cant do ANYTHING without money. Times are tough. I happen to like where I live (which is NOT Az), but if I wanted to moved, I would need serious planning and do serious savings. If you own a home, have children and no job opportunities, moving is damn near impossible to do last minute. Just curious…..HOW did you come upon this site? No Arizona, your not pathetic. Your just responsible.

      • chuck says:

        I duno , a year later my comment has 11 ups and only 2 downs , looks like most people agree with me…

      • No Arizona says:

        Thanks, Toni. I do have a family and household involved, and moving them is very complicated. Someone even mentioned to get a cashier job if we want to move so badly! Ha! We are in professional positions who have children to raise. It will happen, but moving must be carefully planned.

    • Another Robert says:

      Funny your post seems to have an abnormal amount of thumb ratings. How many of them are did you make? And look! They’ve doubled!

      • No Arizona says:

        Thanks for your feedback, but I don’t even read the articles after posting. The thumbs up cannot be seen as I respond to this. The home page gets the most views and comments, and apparently a lot of likes. I can understand how living in Arizona can make you feel people are untrustworthy, but NoArizona has nothing to gain by hitting the thumbs up all day.

    • Jason says:

      Nice chuck!. Arizona is beautiful, just remember you guys don’t hate all of Arizona just the desert. To the beautiful North, East, West and the the only Natural wonder in the U.S. I am happy to call this place home just like all the other transplants that believe in this state! A lot of the people who are unhappy about the Sonoran desert in general (Which is considered the most abundant of life than any other desert) are the ones who have been here most of their life. We have a rich history and big backyard of wilderness waiting for your eyes to feast upon. Go out and learn about your state and why many believe it is one of the greatest, I know I do.

      • Jason says:

        btw, I came across this site because I searched google as to why Phoenix is so hot other than being a desert. I actually want to thank you for this site! living in Phoenix ain’t easy, thats for sure. But i’m glad you have this blog for ALL of Arizonans, often times I find myself defending this state but I do have to admit sometimes its blind patrionism on my part because its my birth state. I want to make Phoenix a better place for all to live and prosper. Its the most I can do, not just run away.

      • Sharon says:

        Question myself and my partner who has MS and early stages Alzheimer are seriously thinking of moving to Az. For many reasons, one begin my daughter and three grandchildren live there (which as a caregiver fulltime the last 6yrs) I need that. Two his children and grandchildren who yhey call me grandma live close to us in California however we are lucky if we see them for their birthdays, let alone holidays. So since my daughter and her husbsnd, grandchildren give him so much love he needs that as much as me. Especially with his illness. Only one dilemma he has a long time friend of 50yrs now they both turn 70 this year, this friend comes over once a week or everyother to visit him. That’s more than his own children. We even co-mingle with ex-wife and her new husband. We have been together 10yrs not that it matters but I’m telling my life he’s 16yrs older than me. When I meant him he was going through his divorce I said make your marriage work because he loved her, she just kept demanding. So I was there and then we had 3yrs before became ill all due to a stoke. And we are not even married I told him I would never leave. ALL I’M ASKING DO YOU THINK THIS WOULD BE A GOOD MOVE??

      • brekanarts says:

        Yes, you are in a situation where Arizona might actually benefit you. It’s unlikely that you will need to labor outdoors in Summer and you won’t be raising a family there on a day-to-day basis. In fact, from a vacation or retirement point of view, Arizona is heavenly.

        For a hands-on tradesman with five children, Arizona was a bit uncomfortable and daunting. I may have had a different take on the state if i were a real estate agent and loved sports.

        If you love baseball the Cactus league is a retirees pasttime. Just stay away from the casinos that prey on retirees.

        Move for family. Yes. Move for work. No.

    • I agree with Chick Norris. If you REALLY hate it there, GET THE FUCK OUT! Man up. A job is a job and even a whore hates work somedays.

      But this site is typical of Arizonans. Everyone bitches and nobody does anything. Or they bitch about things they can’t control like the deadly heat. They’re trapped in a self-fulfilling prophecy of frustration and they love it. Or they’d leave it.

      It’s an easy life as a cube jockey with a red tiled roof and 1000 sports channels. If you get intyo GoDaddy or UOP or Safelite or any shitty corporation you’ll stay and bear that shithole for the easy life.

      I just said. Fuck it. Keep your inverted house. I don’t want to be a faceless cube jockey at some shitty corporation. I’m unique. AZ is bland.

    • Jes says:

      Really I find arizona to be the shot hole of the whole United state’s I have been a lot of places and sure the Sun is nice other than that it its about money can’t seem to keep enough to get out something gets ya every time it a joke this place is hell on earth I swear of I had all the money in the world still would not stay everything here is wrong!!!

  5. JK now in Chi Town says:

    Can’t agree with this website more. Moved from St.Louis to Phoenix after a rough, cold winter and after the first month or so realized how terrible the place was. Moved back to the Midwest after my lease was up, literally driving out 1 year from the day I drove in(so full of hope). Chicago is 10000000000x the city Phoenix is. What a terrible year(loved my coworkers and roommate, but not the community, drivers, heat, etc.)

    • No Arizona says:

      Thanks for reading! The problem with Phoenix is it has no identity other than “a dry heat”. Chicago has pizza, Da Bears, Jordan and more! Phoenix has dust, pollution, crime and rude people. Glad you escaped! This will be my year!

    • sam wells says:

      Just a head up, Phoenix is a very small portion of what makes up Arizona. Lots of people on a small shitty chunk of AZ, probably the ugliest part of AZ. Most real Arizonians will tell you Phoenix blows, its common knowledge.. What is sad is that most people jsut never leave phoenix to explore the rest of what the state has to offer.. Your loss, less people for the rest of us.

      • No Arizona says:

        Sam, this is true. This blog is primarily regarding the Phoenix area. In the “About” section of this website, it states, “Specifically, this site deals with the issues involved within the deserts of the Phoenix area.”

        There are many beautiful parts of Arizona, but the problem is that there aren’t many jobs in those areas! There are places in this great nation where you can live near a major city and feel like you’re in the forest.

        I agree with those who say there are other nice parts of Arizona, and I’m glad (almost) all of us can agree that Phoenix a nasty city. Still, Arizona just isn’t a match for me, and Phoenix is my absolute nightmare.

    • Daniel F.Maloney says:

      You are a failure punk!

  6. TheTram says:

    Just stumbled on this site and wanted to post my experience. I am a native to Arizona (2nd generation) and my children are third. Lived in Mesa (Mormon saturated) since I was three years of age. Finally got tired of the rat race, rude people and everything is dead (landscape). Moved to Texas now and oh what a difference it is. There is grass, trees and a ton of living things. People are way more polite then those over in AZ.

    • No Arizona says:

      So glad for you! I hope the rest of your family finds a way out of the desert! Once you live among the trees, it’s hard going back to the desert! Thanks for reading!!

      • Love Texas too. Was born in this desert nightmare called AZ.Then Lives in Texas for 20 years.Moved back to AZ and am moving back to Texas. You have that right NA once you live among trees real lakes receive rain it is hard going back to this desert state.

    • Sara w says:

      Some of you are SO stupid.. there is TONS of greenery ALL OVER Arizona.. the problem is you do not venture outside of Phoenix.. I will never understand why someone comes to AZ, lives in PHOENIX ONLY and then hates all of Arizona?? Some of these other comments are spot on, you only have yourselves to blame for your stupid actions… everyone in AZ knows phoenix sucks, the smart ones explore the rest of the state and take in the beauty… White Mts for example, near oreagon like forests and show 6 months out of the year… Pathetic people like to blame the environment around them, smart secure people know the problems lie in themselves. Good luck with being idiots.

      • No Arizona says:

        Very interesting. Thank you for providing our readers with a great example of Arizona rudeness. Did you guys notice the demeaning insults to bring down opposing points of view to elevate her own?

        I’m glad you love Arizona, Sara. You certainly belong there.

      • Sarah W says:

        Sorry that you thrive on ignorance No Arizona, that is why you think anyone with a valid opinion besides your own is “rude”. Its hard not to be rude when your webpage calls out many reason why you think Arizona is horrible yet you never took the time to actually see the state and understand why people have a love/hate relationship with az, the natural beauty of the state is amazing but if you are not into that sort of thing then yeah, you may hate Arizona. I

        t would seem “smart” people would know this before they move here and do some research while not so smart people become victims. Phoenix is the main topic on this page and everyone knows Phoenix sucks, no new knowledge there. I have a feeling people who hate Arizona get screwed over throughout most their life.. Its them, not the chunk of land they happen to be on.

      • Sarah W says:

        Ok, so I have read your intro up there and see you are tackling the Phoenix area.. so that’s a good start.. Two things come to mind, Norther az Mountains are NOT the high desert , people THINK this but technically that’s NOT TRUE.. People think this who do not do their own research and just give in to everything others tell them.. Talk to any biologist (or any scientist for that matter). The mogollon rim and White Mountains are not the high desert whatsoever , they are their own unique biomes that have little to no desert characteristics at all.. Simple research will show you this.

        Also, anyone who thinks that everyone inside of fake boarder (the states for example) are all the same (aka rude, etc,) is a moron, end of story. Yes I may be rude myself but if you are so simple that you really think everyone in az sucks or is rude then you will be a victim your entire life due to your ignorance.. Take it as you will and I will leave your blog alone now, just venting some frustration, ignorance drives me crazy.

      • No Arizona says:

        We will agree to disagree. I appreciate and welcome opposing points of view, and thank you for your input.

      • Sara W = Citydata Mod in Disguise says:

        Sara W, you’re at the wrong website. If you want to be snide and snarky, go to the citydata Phoenix forum.

      • Cristopher says:

        Settle down.

      • Noel says:

        I agree with you. I’m also glad they move

      • Tela says:

        Yuck Sara your comment is the worst! Comparing Eagar / White Mountain area to Oregon? Ru 4real?

    • Daniel F.Maloney says:

      Yet another loser!

  7. TheTram says:

    It’s green alright. So green that you can have campfires every where!


    • Bill Willimans says:

      Its so Green that people in the white mountains say it reminds them of Oregon…

      Sorry TheTram but your an idiot.

      • No Arizona says:

        Did you mean “you’re an idiot”?

      • Another Robert says:

        Wow! They are beautiful! Do jobs and large housing communities with amenities exist there like in Phoenix? What about decent local schools for my children?

      • TheTram says:

        It was a joke, the lack of rain in that state and the tree huggers preventing the forest industry to thin out the forest has had severe consiquinces. Every summer something is burning up north. If you read closly this blog is towards the Phoenix metropoltain area and suburbs. I suppose you could add Tucson in there as well. The out skirt city’s scatttered around the state cannot support large populations. Been to Holbrook lately? Yeah, that was gonna be a big town but it is practiclly a ghost town.

        There is one thing I will say about being a native and living in AZ for 41 years. That I now understand why God sent the isrealites into the desert for 40 years to prepare. Because when I here people here in the San Antonio area say “It’s Hot” I roll my eye’s. Currently in the second summer here and my whole family agree’s, this place ain’t got $h!t on Phoenix heat. Oh and the rain, did I mention that it rains here so much more so that they have trees and grass EVERY WHERE! Well not El Paso hehe.

      • NicoleS says:

        TheTram, it’s not the tree huggers who are putting the forests at higher risk for wildfire. The forests are unhealthy due to years of mismanagement by the logging industry, clearing of old growth trees, and years of no prescribed burns combined with preventing the spread of natural fires (such as lightning fires) which would have kept the forest healthy. Fortunately, we now know that the thinning of unhealthy trees (which would otherwise create extremely hot and catastrophic fires), burning the safe thinned sections, and allowing any natural fires to burn that are not immediately endangering a home is much healthier for the forest, actually reduces the risk of catastrophic fire, and keeps the forest healthier, overall. Unfortunately, the damage that was inflicted by years of ignorance is extensive, so this is an ongoing, long process. Some years droughts are too extreme to safely have control burns, and also make any fires (almost all of which have been human caused in the past few years) seem even more detrimental.

        In any case, while recent fires have been pretty catastrophic, even they will benefit the forest in the long run – even if we won’t see it in our lifetime.

      • Another Robert says:

        “It was a joke, the lack of rain in that state and the tree huggers preventing the forest industry to thin out the forest has had severe consiquinces.”

        Lol. Yup, and what is the reason for the lack of rain?

        Also, you ask, preventing the tree huggers from thinning out the forest? Versus what? Completely clearing it out and not having a single tree even for the logging industry to cut down for its own?

    • Cris says:

      Wow. You can even see one of the wild…um…I mean “campfires” from space!

  8. rick says:

    As someone who lived here years ago, went back East and moved back… The Phoenix area was a pretty interesting somewhat quirky place in the late 80s early 90s. It wasn’t the horror it is today.

    When’s the last time you really met a Phoenix native? Every other young dbag moved from SO CAL BABY and tries to act rich, or is an old crank Midwesterner who loves golf but doesn’t want to deal with brown people. The allure of cheap bubble housing, shady job market (things like godaddy and University of Phoenix), and angry angry retirees have doubled the population and sort of poisoned everyone.

    • TheTram says:

      Native here and you are spot on good Sir. I was always surprised that most everyone out side my family were not born in AZ. The snowbirds have it right, live there during winter months and then return to their home state. They keep everything registered in other states for lower taxes. They RUN the +55 communities and will not tolerate anyone.

    • Daniel F.Maloney says:

      You are not a fighting man are you.Help me get rid of invaders!

  9. la2161 says:

    Do I ever feel trapped here. I feel like a fish out of water, a person in a foreign land. I can’t even stand it. I grew up in Tucson, and 30-35 years ago, it was a nice place. I actually grew up in Oro Valley and was very lucky. I have many great memories of O.V. and Tucson from back then. I moved to Colorado in 1979 to go college, and spent the better part of my life there. Over the last 30 years or so, I returned to Tucson periodically for Christmas and even moved back here for a year in 1991, but it was never the same. I was always wanted to return to my favorite place – CO. I love Colorado and that is my home. (Colorado is in my blood) I have nothing good to say about Tucson (or Phoenix for that matter) Tucson is a hot, noisy and dirty city, filled with criminals and rude, inconsiderate people. And, I don’t care for the politics here either – conservatism at it’s best. For the most part, the people in AZ are intolerant, shallow and racist. So, here I am – stuck, and in misery. I don’t know if I’ll ever be able to return to Colorado again – it’s all that hope for now, more than anything.

    • Bill Willimans says:

      I live in Tucson and have had the exact opposite experience as you, nice people , super liberal (for AZ, the only BLUE county).. sure we have crime, I mean we are a huge city millon people live here , do you not understand that? Sorry that “things change” as time goes on, if you could accept that you may enjoy life more… I am friends with tons of family’s raising liberal children here so not sure what you are talking about???

  10. la2161 says:

    You know I’m going to say one more thing about this miserable, horrible place. People here are incredibly cruel and judgmental. They think they are so much better than everyone else and they are not. They are boring, bland people, who think that everyone else has to think and act and look like all of them. It makes me sick.

    • Bill Willimans says:

      you sound really boring and bland.. ugghh

      • John G. says:

        Hey you sound like the typical native from Phoenix, many of the people from Phoenix and surrounding areas share many of the psychological characteristics of criminals:

        1. Resentment of Authority
        2. A strict code of ethics without guidance from a deeper set of moral values.
        3. A deep seated anger at the world.

        Furthermore there is a desire to be seen as better than other people, as opposed to a desire to be recognized for your own accomplishments. Whether it be in intelligence, creativity, and/or physical performance, they always try to “outdo” you, much of the time they end up simply copying what you do but, they try to do it faster, or more elaborate, or less elaborate, or with more computing power or modern technology. Either way they aren’t original and they end up looking pathetic. I don’t think this is limited to people from Phoenix, because I have seen similar behavior from people from the Midwest, whether it be Ohio or St. Louis, they share many of these behaviors.

        I don’t simply want to run the people of Phoenix and the city down, many people may not know any better. In any case, I see Phoenix as a challenge, a problem to be solved, and as a work in progress, hence I made a commitment to stay here forever and to slowly change the culture.

        Phoenix is slowly changing for the better, they are slowly changing their world-views.The people of Phoenix have one advantage, they can build large projects quickly and cheaply, when the Hyperloop is built between Phoenix and Los Angeles, Phoenix and the surrounding metropolitan area will become another suburb of Los Angeles, when that happens Phoenix may actually be a pretty cool place to live for everyone!

    • Em Eazy says:

      Arizona is wasteland.

      • Mar Moving says:

        OMG you are a genious. I hate it here. The jobs are marginal at best, the housing is over priced. The people are rude. Education is a joke. Crime goes unchecked.Tucson looks like it is a ghost town. For those who say that these are problems in most cities, I beg to differ.

      • Lovin' Phoenix, AZ says:

        Arizona is a beautiful state with friendly people, fantastic scenery, awesome sunsets and the best winter weather in the world!!

      • Hatin' Phoenix, AZ says:

        Your a troll. The facts don’t back up your statements.


      • Bigg D says:

        I’ve Been Home Almost 2 months now….I’m still PISSED OFF about my MESA, AZ. trip…But I know I will have to get over it one day…I did the research for 10 yrs. was going to transfer a JOB I had at the time….Trying to save money new it would have taken a fair amount….My life was changing, family matters were changing….Which kept me strapped to ILLINOIS….Until my sister and I decided to go for broke & find a new life…Tired of the COLD & SNOW….We thought Mesa,Az. boast as a retirement community…I figured if I was to go now would be the time….But to have investigated Mesa for 10 yr.1750 miles away from home….CRUSHED in 1 day it was not only devestating to me but to every one close to me that was involved….There was no reason for me to be treated in such away….In the back of my mind, I wanted to get a hold of the Mayor of Mesa & John McCain….I feel some one needs to no, I needed to be in the dry air, I have chronic sinuses & allergies….But now I can get MEDS for that….We will have SNOW & ICE on the ground in 90 days, It will stay for 6 months and the wind chills factor has gotten so LOW here -45 below….Looking forward to spending the HOLIDAYS with my family….Just wanted to check in…Wishing every one JOY & Happiness, For every one who was involved thanks for your insight & understanding….I do check on the BLOG from time to time…And will add my 2 cent where needed….I know alot of people talk about,The best way to make it out in Az.is off the GRID….Heard Tell *Talk To U L8R* Take Care

    • Cheril says:

      I respect your feelings. I feel like you do about Colorado. I am miserable. The people are horrible and judge mental. Not sure Arizona is where I want to be but despise Colorado. Yuk

  11. JC says:

    I LOVE this page, keep up the good work and I hope we can ALL achieve our dreams of escaping this AWFUL, boring, hot, dry, idiot filled wasteland FOREVER!!!

  12. I’m a 5th generation native of Arizona and must say I hate Phoenix. And agree with a lot of what you say and I understand how expensive it is to move but wish your site was more about Phoenix/Valley and not the whole State as I find that is unfair. Originally moved back to Arizona to Scottsdale in 1968 (dad was military) and it was great. Only about 30,000 people, clean air and water, light traffic – friendly people, etc. Though it was still hot in the summer it always cooled each night and was not as hot as it is now with the heat island. Boy has it gone done hill since then. I guess any large city is going to be bad and Phoenix is the 5/6 largest. So the rudeness, crime, everything really is partially due to population. Right now I’m in Wickenburg, taking care of aging parents. Much nicer/cooler in terms of weather, and is high desert. From my experiences of living in several states and traveling here and in Europe – is that everywhere has good and bad areas. Phoenix is terrible – if you like bigger cities, Tucson is better though still desert. Smaller towns are usually friendlier – Arizona is so big that you can have pretty much any type of weather – rain in some cities is over 20″ a year. Unlike many other States where the weather is pretty much the same throughout the State – Nashville was awful – over 40″ of rain a year – really high humidity in the summer where at 5pm you dripped standing in the shade – but green. Winters were terribly cold – not snow but ice. People were friendly but the weather, lack of sun and bugs (chiggers yuck) and the lack of interesting landscape I had to leave – do miss the fishing though. Colorado was nice but too much snow. Seatlle – too much gray, depressing. Anyway – like I said – it’s a big State. Places I like here that are cooler but not too cold are Bisbee – everyone was so friendly makes you feel like you lived there for years – and Payson, Prescott is fun – I like Oak Creek Canyon area – don’t know what it would be like to live in any of them but experiences have been positive.

    So anyway – I agree with Phoenix sucks all around.

    • Tom says:

      Arizona is a beautiful state. I moved to Scottsdale in 1984. Scottsdale is no longer a desirable place to live. I read many comments on here about rude people and unfriendly neighbors. It wasn’t always that way. If you travel up north to Prescott you’ll see a huge difference in the people who live there. I’m in the process of moving to Prescott.

  13. Toni says:

    It’s interesting that so many people whom love Az are scrolling this site…… If you love it so much, how did you come upon a site titled No Arizona??? Some people DO like Az., some love it and yes, some HATE IT. Why is it so hard to believe that different people have different opinions? Its not as if the blogger is bombarding a site titled ‘Yes Arizona” with his negative opinion of the state. No, He created a site which could be avoided by those who may be offended.

    • No Arizona says:

      I’ve wondered that, too! How in the world do they find us? I would never go to an “Arizona Is Great” blog and blast the site. Assuming, of course, such a site even exists.

      • Sam Hughes says:

        I think its because its the nature of the net, people are bored, they want to vent after a hard day so here they are. They like AZ and post about it. Its the nature of humanity and the internet even more so. It could be because the toatly lame site Azsucks.org links to you on his page and he is a huge turd that just bashes people left and right if they don’t agree with him, so far as to even post personal info. He links to your page often so you are an easy target.

      • Cyndi says:

        They find it by looking for bloggers in AZ. It is unfortunate that this is what we find.

      • joe carlin says:

        JOE C.

    • Magoo says:

      I found this site by googling “why are people so mean in Phoenix”

  14. Jack G says:

    Seems to me there is a bunch of bitter losers on here who have pathetic lives and feel they need to rip on the most wonderful place in the world. I don’t expect the moderator to let this on the board but that goes to show how small minded you really are. Every complaint you have I bet I could find in EVERY other state – I bet you even more so. You make me sick… and I hope you never find true happiness AZ haters

    • i lived in Philadelphia, Cinnaminson, New Jersey, New London, CT, Charleston, S.C and L.A but i have 2say Phoenix is the most rude, inconsiderate, judgmental, argumentative egotistical arrogant beligerent selfish and u epitomize this anti-social psychopathic attitude thats in denial of this behavior..i guess ignorance is bliss

      • Heidi says:

        Wow. You lived in New London, CT and you think Phoenicians are the rudest and most inconsiderate? Yikes! I grew up in Norwich, CT, and lived 15+ years in Colchester, CT. New Englanders are cold, unfriendly, hurried and self-absorbed. Everyone knows that. There’s no way the residents of the greater Phoenix area are ruder than people in CT – especially from May-Oct., when all of the Midwesterners and Canadians have left Phoenix and have gone back “home” for the summer. Then the main element of rudeness is wiped away. (Phoenix IS crowded and full of selfish people when the “snowbirds” are around from Oct.-May). Do you even recall what “customer service” was like in CT? If you asked, say, a Waterford, CT Target salesperson where to find toothpaste, you’d encounter some teen or 20-something who wouldn’t even look up from her texting yo acknowledge you. She’d mumble and point, acting annoyed that you dared to disturb her. Here, at the Goodyear, AZ Target, an employee not only will answer my question, she’ll also grring me to the aisle with the product! She will lead me to the product, do so with a smile, and there will be no cell phone in site. I’m not saying Phoenix is fabulous. It has a LOT of negatives: LOW pay, terrible schools, corruption, secret MORMON control, etc. But there’s no way a reasonable person could ever think that people in Phoenix are ruder than people in New England.

    • SH says:

      Have you ever left Arizona? I think not because there are some very wonderful areas of the country where the buildings are not all beige, where they have public transportation, walkable, bustling downtowns full of sidewalk cafes and local restaurants that aren’t situated in inward-facing, master planned downtown areas with elevators, and where the entire metro area is not simply littered with one big box wasteland shopping center after another.
      Phoenix has got it all wrong. The very fact that Scottsdale has a more vibrant downtown and economy than the Valley’s biggest city proves how poorly the city is run. I don’t like the desert, so I would rather not live here at all, but the utter lack of character in the Valley is separate from the climate and a very serious quality-of-life issue for the artistic, intellectual and creative people that make cities vibrant. That’s why so few of them live here.
      In most metro areas, the largest city is the cultural draw, with theater, art galleries, restaurants and a lively nightlife — plus the jobs. Phoenix fails at that, and that’s why the area seems so sprawled. You have to traverse the entire Valley, taking pieces from Scottsdale, pieces from Gilbert, pieces from everywhere to establish a good quality of life. In most suburban areas, you can find good restaurants or doctors in your town, or travel 20 or 30 minutes to the city, often by mass transit. Here, there is no one worthwhile city, so you very often have to travel the whole Valley to find what you’re looking for. If it even exists. For me, it doesn’t here.

    • Richard Paul Grayson says:

      https://polldaddy.com/js/rating/rating.jsR.P.G. says:
      Jack . . . you epitomize the Arizona Asshole. Fuck you. Leaving your toilet State was a joyous and wise decision, years ago. Getting out of Arizona literally opened up a new, opportunity-filled, joyful life.
      Now, thinking that YOU are one of the f—ing assholes we left behind, fills me with even greater joy!
      Burn up in your fucking “valley of the sun”, which I’d rename, “VALLEY OF THE MINMUM WAGE”.
      You are a stupid, belligerent, narrow-minded, obnoxious, living example of the bipedal SHIT that is hardcore Arizona-folk.

  15. No Arizona says:

    Jack, although your comment is completely out of line and mean spirited, it is a great example of the rudeness we’ve unfortunately had to become accustomed to living here. That is a great reason to allow your comment. Thank you for showing your rear end for the world to see.

    • John G. says:

      Phoenix has the unfortunate effect of transforming anyone who comes from other parts of the country into rude, arrogant, selfish bastards. So You see Mr. No Arizona, Mr. Jack G. is actually a perfect example of the effect Phoenix has a on people.

  16. Bob Deer says:

    Arizona is a different state. Much of the nation just does not live like this. I have lived all over. Like many fellow commenters, I found this site while searching for an answer; what is wrong with this state? I have been here slightly less than 1 year. The heat is terrible, it’s akin to the same discomfort you experience in very cold regions. The traffic is dangerous. Daily-I see wrecks, road rage, and hostile drivers. It is not uncommon to see drivers ranging 25 miles over the speed limit. And Arizona drivers crash with tremendous abandon. This state has had the distinction of leading the nation in fatal car crashes for years. My car insurance increased $100 per month just because I moved here!
    The tipping point, however, is actually the crime. In all my travels, I have never been the victim of crime like this. In less than 1 year in Arizona, my bike was stolen, someone attempted to break in my residence, my family members bikes were stolen, my car was hit three times, my truck was stolen….Should I go on? And I live in, by what I am told, (and statistically) in one of the best safest areas in Az to live.
    If you are thinking about moving to Arizona, just be aware that you are moving to a state with poor water, bad drivers, high crime, terrible schools, high rates of substance abuse, and crippling poverty. You will have 6 months of great weather followed by 6 months of misery. Along the way, unless you are lucky, you will be robbed without mercy.
    Without a doubt, there will be defenders of this state. If you like it here, I am happy for you. But there is reason that Az tops multiple lists of the worst states to live in. Once again, much of the nation does not live like this. Az is a state best avoided if possible.

  17. Ashley says:

    Hi there! I’ve visited your site numerous times, but have never written. Love love love your blog. I’m a rare Arizona native, and actually grew up in Globe, AZ before moving to “The Valley.” I agree with you on the negative aspects of this place 100%. I know that a lot of people are really proud to live here as well, so I certainly don’t wish to offend anyone…it’s just my personal preference.
    I hate that the days never change. Whether it’s 40 degrees or 110 degrees, it looks the same outside and I want to hide from the sun. I think just about everyone can agree regarding the RUDE people. Especially on the freeways. I have the pleasure of a 40 mile (one-way) commute, and am constantly afraid of getting in an accident. I have actually had nightmares about driving here. Lol I’m recently married and do not want to raise my (future) children here. Too often I see young girls who have not been taught any self-respect and who are dressing way too old for their age! Not to mention that as a woman I often feel that it is unsafe to be alone when my husband isn’t with me. A lot of men here have no shame and I haven’t experienced that when I’ve traveled to other states. The job market is also a joke unless you like doing sleezy sales. I could go on…pretentiousness, drugs, crime, lack of culture, heat, chain businesses, politics etc. etc…. Thanks for giving me a place to vent. Cheers to getting out of this hell hole!

  18. Dennis says:

    I happened on your blog by doing a search for how hot it was in Phoenix in 2013. While I enjoy living here for the most part, I certainly can agree with you about the negative aspects of the Valley. I enjoy your writing that is articulated well and reasoned for your opinions. While I may not agree with all of your opinions, I welcome differing points of view as long as they are expressed in a civil manner such as you do without the ridiculous name calling that some seem compelled to engage in. Good luck to you and your family in the future. Dennis Rice, Glendale, AZ

  19. aj@us says:

    Living in the state of Arizona has not been a bad decision. However, after visiting Los Angeles for a few days I decided to move there.
    Arizona is state that traps you and makes it harder to move. Some people have spent even 40 years in the state and still don’t get used to it.
    People are rude, racist and lack of education. It is noticeable that people are uneducated, in some areas like the South and west of Phoenix; there are plenty of illiterate habitants. Moreover, there are gang problems, early pregnancy and substance abuse.
    Summertime is hot as hell. People prefer to be indoors all the time; there is nothing to do in summertime, except going to closed places. Walking leaves you drained.
    The state is racist; it is easier for an individual of white color to get a good job than a person with brown skin. I could notice in my job that most of managers where people with white skin.
    Jobs are very low paid. Most of jobs are call-center jobs or sales that pay no more than $12.00 an hour, besides demanding too much from the worker. Furthermore, is a free work state where managers treat you with no respect.
    It is truth that rent is cheap, but the electricity bills jumps high in summertime. For instance, a 3 bedroom house is billed up to $500 in summertime.
    There is an over saturation of Mexican food, I just got sick of it.
    Panhandlers everywhere. Homeless people in every parking lot, corner, just asking for money.
    City looks the same everywhere you drive.
    As a massage therapist, it was so challenging to endorse an out of state license. Their reciprocity rules had too many obstacles, that at the end, it was just about paying more money to local schools.
    My mother came to visit from overseas and did not like this place at all. Once a coworker from California said this city is just cheap shit.
    Finally, I feel glad to make the decision to move out of this hole.

    • I guess you’ve never been to the South?? Talk about idiots..lol

    • David says:

      I went to Massage Therapy school in another state and then moved to AZ after school to be closer to my family who had moved back to AZ and I will not practice Massage Therapy here in Arizona. It seems like every other week here in Phoenix, someone posing as a Massage Therapist is getting busted for prostitution and I do not want to be associated with that.

    • Noel says:

      Glad to hear your happy somewhere els

  20. OMG Arizona is one of the most beautiful and diverse states in this country. Some talk about the heat..lol well I’ll take Arizona’s heat over the midwest heat. I lived my entire life in the Midwest. The humidity, bugs weather is HORRID. Snow, ice TORNADO’S ETC. People stay sick all the time. I agree with those few educated people on Arizona. Phx. isn’t the only place in the state. It’s so funny when I’ve talked to people and ask have you ever been in Az. they ALWAYS SAY YES. PHX..lol I can’t believe anyone would come to this state and not explore all the beauty and the most sunshine of any other state!! You truly are amazing.
    On average we have 3 months of high heat. The rest of the year it’s so incredible. I live in Northern Az. and it’s truly heaven on earth!!

    • ur missing the point that most of the negativity is not against the state itself but against the attitudes of the people and the politics of the people here with above average racism and rudness. i moved here from los angeles 3 years ago where i lived 5 years after living in philly 36 years and the people here make it hard 2 stay

    • SH says:

      A lot of people comment on the beauty of the state. It is a beautiful state with many diverse landscapes. However, Phoenix is the 5th or 6th biggest city and it offers very few big-city amenities. The outdoors are fine, but people who want all the cultural and lifestyle amenities of a big city will not find them here. And they certainly won’t find them in Payson, Sedona, Greer or Arizona’s other beautiful areas.
      For me and many others, quality of life is about living somewhere you enjoy. Not living in a place that’s within 2 hours driving distance of somewhere pretty. I don’t want to travel every weekend. I want to hang out in a cool city.
      A lot of the people who like it here seem to be from the Midwest. I’m not demeaning people from the Midwest, but most of them don’t have the same expectations of a city that someone from another major metro area would.

      • Rene Marciano says:

        https://polldaddy.com/js/rating/rating.jsYes I very much agree. Enjoying life is about living somewhere you enjoy, not living in a place that is 2 hours driving distance of somewhere pretty. Everyone in Phoenix says, oh we are 2 hours from Flagstaff and 1 from Prescott, and 2 from Rocky Point and 5 from San Diego. People in Phoenix are always going somewhere else to get away from Phoenix. This is not enjoying life.

      • Rene Bataglia says:

        I agree. I have gotten very depressed living in AZ. The bleakness of the desert has gotten to me. We are meant to live with trees around us I live in Green Valley just south of Tucson which is greener than Tucson or Phoenix but it’s still not normal.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000 I am planning to move, but could use someone to talk to in the meantime. If anyone can talk please email me at renebataglia@gmail.com and we can exchange phone numbers.

    • Cris says:

      3 months of high heat? Er, May-Oct it’s hottt!!!!

  21. Magoo says:

    I moved to Phoenix from California 3 and a half years ago. I moved here for love. I am still in love, but I hate this state. Oh, I could come to love the desert and even the summer heat in the right circumstances. But it’s all about the people.
    Most of the jobs are low paying food service, retail or call center. And in these jobs and industries there is a lot of suspicion and resentment of someone who has more breadth of experience. In California I worked well with people from all walks of life, from top tier execs to manual labor. Not here. People are different here. More apt to label and judge. A pervasive attitude of suspicion and simmering hostility. And fast to flare up.
    Lots of low income people with poor education and an attitude of entitlement.
    And people who are higher on the economic ladder and really should know better act superior and arrogant one minute and thuggish the next.
    Driving on the road feels like you are taking your life in your hands. Little respect for laws of the road. Red lights are seen as optional for many drivers. Stop signs are to be ignored.
    People toss trash out of their cars everywhere.
    And then there are the druggies at the freeway entrances acting like begging is some sort of legitimate job. Some streets look like Calcutta there are so many drugged out beggars.
    Phoenix seems to be the low income labor pool for the more affluent areas of Maricopa County: Scottsdale, Paradise Valley, Fountain Hills. Very wealthy people from other parts of the world live in those communities behind their gated walls where they don’t have to be touched by the unwashed masses, and never have to see them unless they are bussing their table, washing their car, or mowing their lawn.
    I don’t have much hope for Phoenix.

    • “I worked well with people from all walks of life, from top tier execs to manual labor. Not here. People are different here. More apt to label and judge. A pervasive attitude of suspicion and simmering hostility. And fast to flare up.” i agree wiyh ya

    • John G. says:

      “And in these jobs and industries there is a lot of suspicion and resentment of someone who has more breadth of experience. In California I worked well with people from all walks of life, from top tier execs to manual labor. Not here. People are different here. More apt to label and judge. A pervasive attitude of suspicion and simmering hostility”

      I moved to Phoenix from San Francisco California, and I too have been all over the United States and World. I too have to agree, god-forbid you are seen as more intelligence, more creative, more innovative, because then people will get angry, ignore you or try to outdo you in a childish fashion.

    • John G. says:

      I don’t mind the weather, hot or not, it doesn’t bother me that much. What I can’t stand are the people.

    • Heidi says:

      Well said, Magoo. I’m just wondering: Do you think the people who are easily angered have short fuses because of the outside – or inside – influences in their lives (or both)?

      For instance, I feel that there is a great divide here in Phx. First, there’s a great divide between east valley and west valley. Plus, overall, the rich get richer and the politics are corrupt; fat cat politicians are lining the pockets of certain businesses, etc. In turn, the head honchos of many companies, with huge pay checks and overflowing wallets, simply step on those below them in the hierarchy. Middle class/Middle management doesn’t exist the way it should. There seems to be the rich and powerful and then the poor and struggling (which may originally have been the mididle class). Then there are the purely destitute. They are impoverished for many reasons: Some have created their own destiny with drug use and joblessness and can blame only themselves. Some have lost their jobs, have been replaced, or they dared stand up for themselves and were taught a “lesson” through retaliatory tactics. (“Whistleblowers” never last long anywhere, but especially not here).

      People feel powerless here. Some are just drones or lemmings and are being used by the powers but are too dumb to know it. It’s worse for the educated people; they are aware! Many people with specialized Master’s Degrees are often are working in lower positions than people who actually have less education and experience!

      There isn’t much unions presence; workers here don’t have such a luxury. Republicans don’t like unions.

      People here may be “suspicious” of others. I am one of those suspicios people. Think about the reasons! I’m sure that they – like I – have been taken for a ride by a local business. They may be sick of the shady “pooling” of electricity usage that results in people paying for MORE electricity than they’re actually using during peak usage times, like summer. (Yes, APS just does a pooling of electricity usage and sends bills arbitrarily to “spread” the costs out and take the burden off of the poor during high-peak usage. That means that, just like in a socialist government, you are actually helping to pay someone else’s electric bill. You are paying for what someone else used)! That could result in distrust! It does for me.

      I, for one, refuse to get a recall repair done on my vehicle because I have NO belief in any Phoenix-area Chevy dealer. I KNOW they will not take it seriously, mainly because it’s a free mandated repair. There’s nothing in it for them. I also believe that the mechanics would PURPOSEFULLY break something in m Chevy so as to drum up more business for themselves. This isn’t paranoid. This type of thing has happened repeatedly to my sister-in-saw, who lives in Phoenix.

      You should HEAR the lies I was given by Break Masters when I was there for just an oil change. They tried to say I had a coolant leak and that my brakes were 90% shot and wanted me to buy “diagnostic testing”. (There was NO evidence of a coolant leak, such as puddles on the garage floor or a sweet-burning smell while driving. Plus, the brakes had just been done a few months before and had no classic symptoms of failing brakes like squealing or thumping). They were lies designed to get me fork over hundreds of bucks.

      So, yeah, I am highly suspicious of many people around me. They’re poor and trying to make extra cash by whatever means necessary.

      When people feel “powerless” they tend to feel hopeless. That manifests in different ways: negative hehavior, illegal acts, substance abuse, etc. It’s a vicious cycle. Many in Phoenix know that they’re being trampled. so, they take out their frustration on others by being rude, impolite, or curt.

      And some people here maybe sweet as pie all the time, but then they turn into raging, aggressive maniacs once they’re behind the wheel.

      I’m not excusing anyone’s behavior. I’m just interested to know if you can examine this phenomenon from a sociological or psychological standpoint.

      • maleko says:

        Yep everything youve said here is true and valid to a tee. I concur 100 percent because Ive experienced a LOT of the same stuff. I cant wait to leave this hell hole. Just three weeks left whew. The disparities here between social economic groups is pathetic. This place perpetuates liars cheats scam artists unfair labor practices nasty attitudes racial divide I could go on and on. Big O told me the same thing that I needed $600 worth of rear brake
        repairs. My buddy an ASE cert mechanic checked them and not a thing was wrong. The jobs here are low paying food service and manufacturing jobs where you get treated like crap and piisissed on too. Good riddens to this hell hole once Im gone. A right winged police state right to work state with corrupt people and corrupt government that uses the jails and court systems to generate revenue oh yea. Th

    • brekanarts says:

      That is one of the best assessments of Maricopa county culture, I have ever read. I grew up in one of those gated communities and didn’t realize what a shit head I had become until I moved out into the real world of “unwashed masses” as you call them. Phoenix is one of nations most cliche examples of income disparity.

      Here in LA, when I’m in NY or London, I intermingle with all walks of life. Not in Phoenix. There it’s “to each, his own”.

  22. i lived inn this state 3 years and never seen the level of pervasiveness, judgmental attitude, a sense of entitlment and rudeness anywhere. i lived in 5 different states And i also grew up in philly whichs ays alot

  23. Hest22 says:

    I am a born and raised Arizonan and trust me when I say it really sucks here! I have lived all over the valley West Phoenix, North Phoenix, South Phoenix, East Phoenix, Scottsdale, Tempe, Chandler and Gilbert. I think everyone can agree for the most part Phoenix itself blows, its dirty and people make you question…”Why do i live here, again? ” Chandler and Gilbert are tolerable for the most part they are family friendly areas. However, Arizona on the whole was not meant to be lived in it was meant to be VISITED/VACATIONED in. When you can take the time to go out and see the beautiful parts of it like Payson, Jerome and Tombstone etc. during the time of the year its not 120 degrees outside! And that is not even an exaggeration! It literally can be 120 degrees here! People from the Midwest constantly tell me ” well at least its not humid” OH gosh I would rather be soaked in my own sweat for a 2 months then feel like my flesh is being ignited for 5 to 6 months out of the year. By the way when people say its manageable because everyone has a swimming pool and every home has AC! Please know that in June and July that swimming pool turns into more like a bathtub full of hot water and all that money you say you will save from moving out here goes right back into paying for your AC bill which lets face it can hit $500 dollars a month May – October! No one in their right mind sits down and thinks to themselves “You know what I want to visit Phoenix this weekend” unless they have family members here or are going to the few events we do have. I can understand folks that have shoveled snow their whole lives that move here thinks its the best thing since sliced bread but trust me there are many other states that are warmer than where they used to reside but has more to offer than Arizona ever will.

    • I Love Phoenix, Arizona! says:

      It really is a dry heat. 115 degrees in Phoenix feels like 85 degrees in Houston, New Orleans and Miami. If you have A/C or a swimming pool 115 degrees is not that bad at all. I went swimming last June when it was 112 outside and actually got goose bumps getting out of the water. Don’t let the thermometer scare you!

      • BD says:

        it really is a dry baking heat…like an oven as the saying goes. the climate here is miserable. And guess what-it’s hot again. The nice break we received from November to March is over, get ready for the return of misery the next 8 months. people were not meant to live in a concrete jungle with 120 temps. I’ve lived in extreme cold. I will take the cold any day to this.

      • Another Robert says:

        Thats not true for July and August. Monsoon season. The only way to escape it is to swim, go on vacation, or stay indoors. No thanks.

  24. i lived in phoenix 3 years and anywhere in the entire phoenix area are the most inconsiderate, rude, pretentious people with anger management issues who blow a fuse AT ANY LITTLE THING. its like people always look like theyre always disgusted n annoyed at EVERYTHING and EVERYONE just cause your breathing their air. Alota, but not all people of phoenix fit the definition of psychpaths which is some1 whois anti-social and lack empathy. Not all people of pheonix r like this but a good amount and more than the average city and i lived in 5 different states. Its like people dte very belligerent VERY QUICKLY at almost anything like they dont have any control over their anger. I have never lived anywher where people r like this 2 such a degree of, hostility, bitterness, pretentiousness and with such a high sense of low class that just act like trailer park entitled brats. i just wanna know why the chip on ur shoulder and such a superiority complex with no reason 2 have 1. its not beverly hills. i been in bevery hills and its no way near like the high sense of entitlement phoenix people have with no reason…what gave u the right 2 act so superior, belligerent, condensedning and so critical and judgmental and so hostile an disgusted 2ward others 4 no other reason just cause they might ask u the time or just breathing ur air?…its not beverly hills, its not manhattan, its just phoenix..get over urselves

  25. I Love Phoenix, Arizona! says:

    Can’t speak for everyone, but I for one, am extremely happy I don’t have to spend my life in in a frigid iceberg dump like Chicago, Detroit or NYC!
    L.A. and San Fran are too expensive for most people. But Phoenix is the perfect fit!!!!
    Cost of living is low, houses are cheap as dirt.
    People are friendly, and no gang activity. No “Crips” or “Bloods in Phoenix.
    No rain here. Can’t even remember the last time we had rain.
    No snow either. You will never see snow here unless you see it on TV or the movies.
    Someone once asked me about snow chains and I said “What? So you can tie up the snow with the chains?”

    • I dont miss the snow either but, people r the only thing wrong with Phoenix.. Try reading other people’s posts bout people here. I have and ive experienced the same things so I dont where u find friendly people. I have experienced some, but theres alota of non friendly, arrogant beligerent, short tempered here from my xperience

    • TheTram says:

      You haven’t lived there long enough then. MS13 is in Arizona along with the Hell’s angels. Cost of living in AZ is ranked #34 least exspensive in the Unisted States. For example, your registration of your vehicle is based on it value. In Texas, it is based of it’s weight. (much cheaper in TX). Rain, well you’re right there isn’t much rain in AZ at all. You’ll love the dust stroms but most people prefer a normal storm with rain and not a wall of dirt in the sky.


    • SH says:

      NYC is a dump? That’s funny. It’s only the cultural capital of our country, the headquarters of finance, publishing and fashion. Where people go full of dreams to make it big. Here, people come to escape the snow. No rain means no water, which we humans can’t live without. And there’s a lot of gangs. Phoenix is one of the biggest cities for kidnapping.
      People move here to escape, and that’s why there’s no community. Community defines a place, not cheap housing. It’s cheap for a reason — nobody wants to live here. Supply versus demand. Ever heard of it?

    • John G. says:

      Here is a test, take most residents of Southern California, yes even with all the crips and bloods and the “liberals”, place them in Phoenix for a year, then ask where would you rather live, from what I have seen in this blog, most would rather live in Southern California.

      This is all a moot point, once the hyperloop is built between Phoenix and Los Angeles, Phoenix will become another suburb of L.A., when that happens, Phoenix may actually become a pretty cool place to live.

  26. Whatever you do, stay out of Arizona. Arizona is a different state but Phoenix specifically. Much of the nation just does not live like this. I have been here slightly more than 2 years and have lived in 5 different states with California and Pennsylvania being just a few, and don’t know what is wrong with these people. They are different here and more apt to label and judge with a pervasive attitude of suspicion and simmering egotistical hostility with a superiority complex. They have this constant annoyed and disgusted demeanor, chip on their shoulder attitude all the time that are easily bothered over the smallest things with no patience whatsoever with a bratty and bully temperment. They are also very intolerant of anything different from their own opinions, especially anything different from their ULTRA conservative political views. These people are the most belligerent, arrogant, rude, inconsiderate, racist, rebellious, intolerant, judgmental people I have even been in contact with imbedded in narcissistic, anti-government ultra conservative pro gun rights fanatacism (Arizona is right to carry a non-concealed weapons state) They have no shame in their anti-social, selfish behavior but rather, stick it in ur face if with no apologies and have a “deal with it or leave if you dont like it” attitude. Most places, these people’s behaviors would be considered psychopaths but here, it’s considered normal and condoned, if not rewarded which tells you how messed up these people are. These people will drive like a nut with no regard 4 any1else on the road while having the audacity 2 give YOU the finger or even follow you when you confront them even if THEY are the one who cut YOU off driving with reckless abandon without using their turn signal which is a major common thing here. Absolutely Unbelievable. Again, no empathy, no manners, no consideration, no apologies and no shame for such behaviors. It’s like these people aren’t human but more like demon possessed sociopaths which is looked upon as normal behavior and being nice and courteous is almost looked upon as being weird or not normal that’s not appreciated and viewed as a sense of weakness .Totally AMAZING! Total lack of control with people here. Once again, I can’t stress enough that much of the nation if not all, does not live like this. Phoenix is best avoided if possible. I visited Tucson and have had the exact opposite experience, nice people, more liberal (for AZ, the only BLUE county).

  27. Jen says:

    I realize that this is a blog talking about the negatives of AZ but I have a serious question. I am interviewing for a position at Northern AZ University in Flagstaff. I have a husband who is a truck driver and a 16 year old daughter. Can anyone give me some semi unbiased opinion of Flagstaff? We are in ND right now and this is a huge move for us. This would be a very large salary boost for me, 4 times my current. Thanks for any help.

  28. BD says:

    I wish you luck in your decision. It’s a hard call to know what is right. I consider myself unbiased. I moved to Az sight unseen.I have no dog in this fight. I had a great opportunity at double the money. I took it. I have lived in the upper Midwest for many years. The quality of life tradeoff was profound. I wanted a break from the snow. Well I got it. I now go to bed at night in a state of constant readiness for the next attempted break in. I traded more than my nice house, 3 acre lot of green grass, and neighbors I trusted for this place-I traded my very peace of mind. I no longer worry about snow. I am on constant alert for crime. I life in statistically the safest city in Az. And yet I have been robbed 5 times. Crime is a constant way of life here. I consider myself lucky compared to my neighbors and other Arizona natives. Driving is a life/death endeavor. Az drivers reach the top 10 in deadliest crashes in the US. Daily, I see road rage drivers doing 75 in residential areas. Northern Az is better for for sure. But this state is 20 years behind. I don’t care how you slice. it. This is a backwards, repressed, tragically poor state with no clear solution in sight. I’ve lived in poor states, like the southern delta. But this state is the armpit of the nation in my opinion. If you are coming from the upper midwest (as was I), you will be disappointed. I fear I will never shake off what I have seen here. I no longer think of the sum of money I took to get here. Rather, my morning coffee, daily, is marked by prayer to leave this place. I’ve never hated any place I’ve lived. I’ve traveled all over. Yet I would give my right arm to leave this place. I wish you wisdom in your decision. Until I find a clear path out, I choose to hope and I will pray…

    • Another Robert says:

      Hi BD,

      I am finally able to move to a place that snows about 6 inches total for only 2 weeks. It does have a small snow storm every 5 to 6 years. Green everywhere. I won’t say where it is. I find if you give specifics about where, people tend to nitpick it. My point is that people have a tendency to overcompensate when escaping large amounts of snow and move to Phoenix. Why move from the freezer to the oven? Whats wrong with the pantry? Don’t let the golden cage trap you here either. Even if you have to come back, at least you tried. You”ll never have that regret of not trying to live the dream.

      Best of luck,

    • John G. says:

      Once the hyperloop is built from Phoenix to L.A., Phoenix will become another suburb of L.A. when that happens, phoenix will become a much better place to live.

      • Another Robert says:

        Life is too short. I’m not gonna wait. Besides, its crowded enough and Arizona does not have enough water rights to the Colorado River to support such a plan.

  29. CandyC says:

    Hi, I am from Chicago but have friends in Phoenix, they seem to like it ok. I can tell you that Chicago is a miserable place as well. My husband and I were thinking of moving to Scottsdale or another suburb but not in Phoenix itself. I really love California but like most of you have stated it is very expensive. The one area that is affordable with great schools in California, Rancho Cucamonga, just got evacuated for wildfires. So I guess my questions is, where the heck do we move? I truly hate Chicago, not just the terrible 6 month winter but also the taxes, crime, politics, speed traps, etc. If I have to pay $350,000 for a house I at least want to have somewhat of a decent climate. I respect everyone’s opinions, thanks for posting, it has been helpful for me to look up other areas of Arizona from what you all have mentioned. I am open to other places too but I do not want to live near a border town, my friend lives in El Paso and said it is a different world. I also hate, hate, hate winter but I can tolerate a little bit of cold but would rather not. Also I hate bugs lol so Florida really turned me off when we visited. Oh does such a place really exist for under $400,000. Have a great day everyone.

    • SH says:

      I’ve been looking into Charleston, South Carolina. I hear a lot of good things about it. Near the beach, with lots of history and greenery. There’s probably bugs, but every place has trade-offs. I’ve wanted to live in California my entire life, but it’s just too expensive.

  30. wolfgang says:

    I say we blow up the laguna mountains and get some of that could air here!

  31. Susan says:

    well, i guess i’ll chime in here. i have to say it’s refreshing to have stumbled upon this site, and to realize that there are others out there who feel the same way i do about this hell hole. I moved here 13 yrs ago because i desperately wanted to be close to my family, but omg, it is NOT WORTH IT. I’ve lived in CA on the central coast (san luis obispo–VERY beautiful area) for most of my life, and i’ve NEVER gotten used to living in phoenix, and i’ve NEVER lilked it here,and it’s NEVER felt like home to me. i feel like i just sacrificed for a LONG time in order to be close to family, but i can’t stand it anymore. unfortunately, i bought a home here, which now i can’t sell, and my business fell apart a couple of years ago, and i’ve been struggling to get a new one up and running again. when you seriously start thinking about moving, you have to start thinking about REALITIES, like how much that’s going to cost. It’s VERY expensive to make a move from one state to another. You need around 2-3K just for the movers. unless you want to get rid of everything you own and have to replace it, which in my case would cost much more than that. And if you don’t have a job that you’re moving to, then you have to have enough money for at least six months to live one, so it’s not that easy to just pick up and go. I’ve done extensive research on the cost of living in northern ca, and you can still find places north of sacramento that are somewhat rural, and still affordable. The housing in that area is not that much different from here in terms of cost. I’m looking at angel’s camp, paradise, maybe redding, grass valley. Of course, you might not be able to afford your 4000 sq ft home there, but i don’t care about that. my qualify of living is not dependent on having a large home. I’d rather spend my time out of doors exploring beaches, mountains, etc, and have a more modest home. I hate it here. If you like it, good for you. i know LOTS of people who LOVE it here. good for them. they can stay, for a while anyway. if the planet keeps warming, phoenix will probably be uninhabitable in a couple more decades. I’ve already seen a big change since i’ve moved here. I’m hoping to be out of here in two more years. I’ve looked at north carolina–it’s really pretty there, and the land/housing is pretty affordable, but i think the culture in n. ca is probably going to be more comfortable for me.

  32. jb says:

    Love this site! Glad to see people feel as I do!

  33. Stacey B says:

    Lived In AZ my whole life practically.. northern az gets snow and has seasons, phoenix/ tucson hot as hell great winter. Not as much to do as in some communities. I hate drving or even being in certain areas of Phoenix and Tucson. There are certain hours I refuse to leave areas and enter others. People seem to forget how to drive all together when rain happens… with that being said.. I know many people who moved here for the weather ( health or happiness).

  34. Robert says:

    The valley of the sun sucks. My wife and I have lived here for 17 years and can’t wait to get out of this boring, cookie cutter, rude assholes that think they know everything and of course the shitty weather. It hasn’t rained in 5 months. You feel like a prisoner 8 months out of the year and breath dust half the time. The unemployment rate is higher than the national average. The only positive for us was flipping houses several years ago, but that came to an end as the rest or the nation. We will soon move away from here to a better climate, real neighborhood with real people that look out for their fellow neighbor, while their on vacation. The last complaint is everything looks the same with the next mall and shopping center on every corner. By the way the drivers here suck ass and will pull out their guns if you get in their way. The worst I have seen, even worse then massholes. We are stuck until a better job with relocation options are available.

    • Makayla says:

      I agree with you Robert.
      My husband and I and both are kids want the hell out also. We are working on it also as far as relocating with moving options and better careers as well. I have lost total interest myself in taking another job in this state and my husband knows we need to get out of this dustbowl. Tired of the cookie cutter house and the same shopping centers as well and well the drivers are just aholes here and for me to say that coming from California originally means these drivers are complete aholes.
      P.S. Love the guns also:( ignorance is bliss I guess.

    • Heidi says:

      Hahaha! I had to laugh at your “Massholes” comment. I’m originally from CT and I’m all too familiar with MA drivers. I have to agree, though, that Phoenix-area drivers are worse that MA drivers. It’s not just about slowly traveling in the left lane with their heads in the clouds, like you see with many “Massholes”. Phoenix drivers are AGGRESSIVE!

  35. Jaelyn says:

    Hi No Arizona, I love your blog especially from March to November. We are almost out of here but I am so thankful I can come here and hysterically laugh and cry like a freak. 18 years here, after living in Cal. It is complicated with jobs and kids but we are finally out of debt for good and are saving money. I hope it won’t be much longer.

  36. Another Robert says:

    Yes. Dry heat in the desert for the most part. Although that claim has a large flaw. For two month out of the year, which are also the hottest, its monsoon season. July and August, give or take a week or two, are extremely humid. Imagine the worst humidity in the country that you have ever felt, then add 15 degrees to it. Factor in the concrete jungle of Phoenix as well. If you can stay indoors or take a vacation for a month or two (which most do, even the ones that “love it here”) you will be able to handle the rest of it. If being able to handle this type of climate is what you want. Personally I would want a climate I can enjoy, not handle. BTW. I am finally leaving in March of 2015! 95% sure. It’s been a 2 year process for me.

    Good luck to the rest of you trying to leave.

    • dave says:

      Only two years? boy are you lucky! It took me ten years to save up enough to escape,due to Tucsons pathetic wage scale,outrageous proportionate living costs,and cheapskate employers. But what can you expect from a town run by a group of used car salesmen? To my thinking,the only people who love it here,never lived anywhere else. The reason this city has grown so,is people came here and got stuck here. Barely able to afford to live here,unable to save up enough to get out! ECONOMIC HOSTAGES!

  37. allie says:

    Hey NoArizona, have you escaped the desert yet? I’m either moving to Chicago or California in December 2015, it’s so nice to finally have something to count down to!

  38. Javier says:

    I’m a hard working individual and no matter what or how someone or something was always in our way. The mentality of people in that place is so backwards. We literally just picked up and left. It was the best choice of our lives. We make more and work a lot less. Good bye Arizona and your twisted ways.

  39. Scott says:

    @Another Robert

    I’m trying to figure out the two months of humidy thing (its been 6 this year).. I own a Landscape company (struggling of course) and am outside daily (except when I can help it). Its been humid for months on end. It is Oct 12th and still gnarly. The weather here is on some sort of swing back and forth back and forth for several years now. Wasn’t it 100deg F in Feb this year a day or two? I moved to Dewey for a year then moved back in April due to finances as in the beautiful country there is no money to be had. We’ve both been sick and lethargic since.

    The problem with Phoenix is many months a year (used to be 4-5 now 8) sitting inside keeping to yourself promotes hermitism, not community. Some folks do well here, most don’t unless you have lots of money to combat all the garbage living here. I don’t hate it, but the people here really do suck. Everyone is getting fatter and fatter from it (go ahead and get me now), I personally struggle to keep fit and I work outside hard as hell!!!! Angry is the new norm. People will honk if you want to merge into traffic? They actually want to fight because you pulled in front even going faster than they were. Everyone has a phone in their face!!!

    Our culture is tattered, people are broke and in trouble. It doesn’t help to have the overzealous police force around you. I’m educated so is my lady. ASU Grads, you either have to sell your soul (60 hrs a week) or be poor.

    What really sucks is this place is soooo beautiful! Too bad sustainability is not a mantra here. I’m moving to Eugene OR in November. I need a cleaner life.

    I chose here and now it is not even close to what it was 20yrs ago when I moved here. Its terrible that it has gone the other way. It used to be awesome and enchanting..

    • cindy says:

      I’ve been in the Phoenix area for over 25 years and it certainly has changed. Never could figure out why we need to speak Spanish to get a State or County position. Being bilingual is awesome; however, English is the number one language in this state. Not to mention, how this has effected our classrooms. Things are being slowed down, academic levels have dropped and still no one wants to do anything about it. I work as a workforce advisor and have seen a large influx of unskilled people getting positions within the State and County because they are able to speak Spanglish. Being of Mexican blood, I am truly upset with my culture. Get on board people, education is needed and learn English!

    • Cris says:

      Almost moved to Eugene 3 yrs ago…

    • Heidi says:

      I appreciate your input, Scott. You are right about so much. Meanwhile, prepare for a long post. I apologize ahead of time.

      People are indeed getting fatter here. I’m one of them. I had lost weight after getting my thyroid working properly with medication. Then I moved to AZ and my clothes are a bit snugger after a year in AZ. But, it seems that people (me included) find the heat of much of the year too oppressive in which to work out. It sounds like an excuse, I know. Perhaps it is, for me. But I also know that with how poor I am here, there’s no way I’m PAYING for a membership to an indoor, air-conditioned gym facility.

      I certainly don’t envy you working OUTSIDE in the 100+ heat. Our bodies aren’t meant to live like that: sweating and laboring in triple-digit heat. That’s just my opinion; I have no scientific facts to back it up. Our emotional selves arent meant to live isolated from others, either. This, actually, has been proven. Humans are social animals and crave human-to-human contact, friendships, respect, good relationships with coworkers, etc. People here take “standoffish” to an extreme!

      What you said – that sitting inside due to excessive heat promotes hermitism – is true. Sometimes the heat is a major factor. In June through October, people mostly stick to home or other venues with a/c if they don’t have a pool. I sometimes go to my community’s pool. But I sit there by myself, smiling at others, but I’m never able to get to the point of a conversation.

      I also tried joining a couple of “Meet-up” groups. One was a vegetarian meet up group called AZ Vegetarian Diners Club. I went to a meetup at a veg-friendly restaurant in Phoenix. The group RSVP was something like 27 people. 8 people actually showed up. Two of them ordered salmon. One of the salmon-eaters said she eats fish almost every day. (Psssst: “vegetarians” don’t eat fish, either). Then one of the salmon-eaters left $14 cash under his plate before the bill came. He left rather abruptly when he realized that there was no one to “hook up” with. His bill arrived after he’d left and it was for $28. The 3 of us that were left had to pay the other half of his bill.

      Meanwhile, the group leader – a somewhat successful wine distributer with homes in both Phoenix and CA – bragged about having eaten a beef burger a week before. I NICELY said, “I thought this was a VEGETARIAN dining meetup group”. She replied, “Well, we don’t really like to label”. But it was the Meetup group’s TITLE! Then she continued, “Don’t worry about it, though. After eating it, I just worked out like mad for hours so all of the burger was distributed evenly in my body and it didnt cause weight gain”. What? The meetup group is supposed to be for vegetarians. We usually care more about animals and the environment than our belly pooch or muscles. This group should’ve been named “The AZ eating Healthy and Excercising to Look Good” group, because obviously, that’s what the group was about.

      So between that experience and the Spanish conversation Meetup spawning a man that wanted to do tennis lessons with me one-on-one so we could “speak Spanish” alone, I decided that Meetup was not the way to make friends here. The Meetup groups have become fronts for dating/hookups. Here in AZ, they’re also disorganized, they don’t live up to their titles, and they attract people who meet up to brag about themselves and their supposed accomplishments. Ugh.

      People here have made it impossible to know them. I’ve met Phx people on social media who I thought were like-minded. They were vegetarians, loved animals, etc. One woman I’ll call Sue shared her painful life story with me and I reciprocated, but also offered an ear and a shoulder. She would Tweet to me, “I love you” or “besties” or “You’re the only one who truly understands me”. (Yes, she’s a hetero woman and no, she wasn’t trying to date me). She said she wanted to come to my house for a visit. I told her that my house was a bit messy, and offered to meet her somewhere for coffee. She agreed, but left it as a “maybe someday” very noncommittal reply. So, I asked her the next week, “Do you want to meet for coffee this week? What day is good for you?” I was shocked that, despite living under 30 minutes away, Sue said she was “always too busy running around everyday” What? She doesn’t work, is divorced, and has no children. According to her, though, she spends most days “running errands for her mom” who has alzheimer’s. Yet mom still lives in her own house, alone, with no home health care aide. So mom can’t have very advanced dementia.

      And…You can clearly see a person’s Twitter activity, for instance, by looking at the time stamp of the tweet. This woman Sue – who was “running around all day every day for mom” – was actually Tweeting all. day. long. from about 7:00-8:00 a.m. to 9:00-10:00 p.m. every day, every few minutes. It clogged up my Twitter feed. I asked her how she could be tweeting all day if she’s running errands. Tweeting from her phone while driving would be a death sentence. She replied that she IS running errands all day; she tweets while in line at Walmart or in the parking lot at Costco! Lol! Lol! I wish she would’ve just come clean about her fear of actually meeting people in the flesh and conversing with them face-to-face!

      Another Phoenix Twitter “Friend” I’ll call Jan had her tiny dog hit by a car. I called her after she announced the dog’s death on Twitter. She didn’t answer her phone. I understand that, so I left a nice voice mail for her, with sincere condolences. She never acknowledge my call, but instead kept tweeting about the dog. All night long on the night the dog died, this woman Tweeted about her grief, posted umpteen pics of her dog, but did not wish to engage in human contact. She wanted the safety of a computer screen/phone to hide behind. I never heard from her. A week or two later, this same woman Jan whose dog died thought that I had “unfollowed” her on Twitter. She Tweeted to me “Really? Unfollow? Well, unfollow back. Buh-bye”. That’s really mature for a woman over 40! To add insult to injury, that 1st woman – Sue – then *favorited* and *retweeted* Jan’s rude “buh-bye” tweet to me. What?! Then they started having a “gossip about Heidi” tweet fest, thinking I wouldn’t see the Tweets. I did, and I felt like the proverbial bullied middle-schooler. I had done nothing wrong!

      Regardless of that, I tried to explain to Jan via Twitter – (the only means of communications that these weirdos use) – that I didn’t unfollow her and that her tweet was rude. She sent me a screen shot of some cheesy app that instantly shows you who unfollowed you. Obviously, she checks that app often. (Lol. An “unfollow” app). I told her that my iPad shows me still following her; couldn’t her app be mistaken?

      Finally she said, “OMG! I hate drama!” Then she called me a drama queen. That tweet was “favorited” by a guy I’ll call Ben. Ben is an ex-military, ex-cop,who has PTSD & depression & recently lost his mom. I had reached out to him, Tweeted with him privately, and checked on him periodically. He even said, “wow. NOBODY checks on me. I have NOBODY”. Eventually, he completely ignored my Tweets, so I did unfollow him. His reaction to that was to “favorite” a comment by another Twitter “friend” who called me a drama queen? These people are wackos! Is this jr. high?

      The # of followers you have matters more than having real in-the-flesh friends? The first woman Sue admitted to me that she has NEVER MET Jan – or any of the Phoenix-area Twitter animal lovers – in person! She regularly tells them “I love you” or you’re my BFF”. But she’s never looked in their eyes. She’s never hugged them. How can you “love” someone through a computer screen? How can you KNOW someone using a web site that allows only 140 characters per post?

      Did anyone else experience this inexpicable “weirdness” with people here? It’s as if they truly fear and/or try to avoid true personal contact with other humans at all costs. They want online “friends”, online relationships, and online communication only.

      Generally, servicepeople such as waitresses, cashiers, and store clerks are pleasant here. I appreciate that, but I recognize that it’s probably fake and is just a tool used to generate income via tips, commissions, etc. But I am happy that I don’t encounter much eye-rolling or unhelpfullness by servicepeople. Other than cashiers, store clerks and waitstaff, though, PEOPLE here are mostly self-centered, standoffish, and sometimes downright rude. We’d been living here for MONTHS before my hubby finally acknowledge the elephant in the room and marched over to our next-door neighbor and introduced himself. We couldn’t take it anymore. We’d seen him often, and no words were ever exchanged despite our attempts at using inviting smiles, small talk and waves. We now know his name, and nothing else. If we’re all outside at the same time, he doesn’t wave. He doesn’t say hi. Nothing.

      Nobody speaks to each other in this community of houses that were built quite close together. Even in cooler months of winter, people rarely venture outdoors. When they do, though, you shouldnt expect a wave, a smile, or an acknowledgment of any kind. That’s just sad.

      Oh, and by the way: My hubby works 60+ hours per week and we’re STILL poor. My husband has a MASTERS’ degree and makes just above $30K a year, PRE-TAX. Companies here don’t pay people what they’re worth and don’t value employees’ prior experience or education. Companies here try to squeeze blood from a stone, requiring salaried employees to work 60+ weekly hours, just because we’re in an at-will work state, and just because they can.

      My husband’s horrible slave-driving job has caused him health problems. He’s physically sick from the stress, the lack of sleep, and the evil, insidious coworker who regularly tries to sabatoge him. Talk about a hostile work environment! He has applied to multiple job openings to get out of that situation. Yet, those jobs have turned him down or just never bothered to get back to him, even months later.

      The doctors here are – for the most part – slackers, or shady, or unprepared, undereducated, underskilled, ambivalent, or all of the above. They all seem to have terrible staff, which has a high turnover rate. Schedulers make mistakes with appointments. The billing departments are a mess. I had a doctor’s office schedule, cancel and reschedule a “new patient” appointment for me EIGHT different times! After a few months of them continously canceling on me – once on the DAY OF the appointment – I just gave up. I’ve never gotten in to see that doctor.

      For these reason and others, we MUST leave this garbage pit Arizona ASAP!

      • Cris says:

        Wow. I don’t live in the Phoenix area, but from where I am in AZ, I can feel your pain. I moved here from CA 2 years ago, and was getting geared up to move back last year. As you probably know, however, things in CA aren’t lookin’ too bright either. Lol. So, we decided to stay put for a while. If we decide to move in the future, for reasons already well-known, there’ll be very little love lost.
        P.S. Childish “grown-ups” are the bane of my existence. :oP

      • Makayla says:

        Hi Heidi, I feel exactly the same way as you do about AZ. Truly the armpit of America is what my husband and I call it. We made a big mistake moving here 15 years ago but now we are doing our best to get the hell out. Just flat depressing and the job market is disgusting. I am working temp now cause I have lost all feeling to get cozy and snuggly with any medical company here in this state. I will take the silly pathetic paycheck and bank yet and we are running as quick as we can. This summer I am home with the kids getting my house show ready and dump it and hopefully be out of here by next summer 2016. It takes a lot of $$ to up and move your family and buy a home in a nicer state. It’s what keeps me smiling daily is knowing just one more year of this shithole……..dump everything and move, it does not get any better

      • Carrob says:

        Heidi, I enjoyed your comments and your writing skills as well. You do a great job at clearly expressing your feelings and point of view. You adequately expressed why I only made it for six years in Arizona. I found Phoenix the most passive aggressive, rude, strange, and friendless environment I have ever experienced. Hope you and your husband were able to get out of there and find happiness.

  40. Cindy says:

    I have visited Sedona and Northern Arizonia. Beautiful! Visited Phoenix. Hated it. In my mind the big question is not whether you like the area but the fact is Arizonia does not have the water to sustain it’s current population and it keeps growing. Go figure. If I were currently living there, I would be looking at getting the heck out. You are running out of water.

    I grew up in Maine and live in Oregon. I love it here.

  41. JohnDoe says:

    If you want to relocate, I highly recommend either Oregon or Nebraska

    • NativeofCAl says:

      I lived in Nebraska for 3 years I hated it nothing to due and way too much snow and lots of bugs. Oregon is fine I miss California but it is way too expensive to move back to unless I want to live in gangland. The problem with Phoenix are the drivers they are the worst I have ever seen in my life and I have lived in 3 other states.

  42. ilikedoghnuts says:

    I mean, Im a weather guy. Snow, I like it in normal amounts. Normal, as in Midwestish, my home. Ohios winters are not that bad, in most areas. Though I find the Midwest has more crappy-attitude people than AZ. But I like cloud cover, rain, snow. All that fun stuff. Everyday is the same damn thing. Sun, and more sun, followed by some more sun. Its like groundhogs day up in this mofo.

  43. Kenneth shepherd says:

    U dont like it leave or be quit.Or, u can move here to Kentucky, where it miserably hot, and miserably cold in winter time.No jobs, unless u collect welfare.Only good thing here is we have lakes, Mammoth Cave, fertile soil to feed you guys in az.Ive lived in Rancho Sahuarita, Tucson,Benson, and Prescott Valley.You guys just dont know what ya would be missing.120 degree Phoenix day is way comfortable than a 100 degree Kentucky summer day.Kentucky humidity 87 percent with Ya’s little 6 percent.I worked in Tucson at AAA LANDSCAPE in 113 degree.I was wanting to know when I was going to get hot.Cause where I come from its Mississippi Hot here.So ya want to complain about Arizona. Ya have the right.But I would switch with anyone anytime.

    • Another Robert says:

      Uh. Newsflash. Most of us made it clear we are leaving. Some of us have kids in school waiting to finish the year. Some us need to update and put our homes on the market to sell. You can’t just up and leave on a whim. Well, at least most of us can’t. Or, we work in skilled positions which take time to locate another job first.

    • Another Robert says:

      Secondly. Thats pretty bad you need to compare Phoenix weather to the humid south to make it look good.

      • Kenneth shepherd says:

        Its awesome aint it.It is bad u have to go to arizona Phoenix/Tucson area in the summer to cool down.Compared to the hot, miserable, sticky south.But if its want u want then u can have It.I will take Arizona any day.Now out side at 11:57 pm its 11 degrees and its droppi g.u want it..Its all yours.You would eventually say that ole boy from Kentucky told me so.

  44. Tish says:

    I came to Scottsdale about eight months ago. My mother and I had to leave our home state due to safety issues. She thought it would be a good idea since she has some family here (although they don’t seem close to me). I’m really not a fan of AZ. I actually get pretty depressed whenever I look out the window and see desert. I belong to the mountains. This year has been hard but it’s especially hard now during the Holiday season. I should be seeing snow but instead I’m seeing blue sky’s, green trees, and tons of ugly cactus. I feel like I’m on a different planet. Everyone I’ve met has been rather snobbish. I would like to leave someday but with my work schedule and not wanting to leave my mother (she has since fallen ill) I feel very trapped in this land.
    I also agree with the bad driving. I’ve never seen so many crashes in my life. I’ve always been a bit of a nervous driver but now I’m more so. So many drivers in AZ have terrible road rage and drive way over the speed limit.
    I handled the heat well, I think, but it never seemed to end. The good thing about the AZ heat is that every house/apartment (that I’ve seen) has a pool
    I really wouldn’t recommend living here to anyone searching. I feel like there are better places. It’s nice to visit but I wouldn’t ever choose to live here.

  45. bloggermom77 says:

    I’m soo glad for this site! My hubby and I HATE it here! I’m an Arizona native but I’ve lived other places. My husband got stuck here because his dad retired from the military. We can’t wait to get out and hope to leave next year! Rude and heartless people saturate much of this valley. My poor husband thought he had friends even though I told him that they were fake nice and superficial. He posted that he was moving out of state and didn’t get any responses from any of them. We have been hurt by untrue gossip that has led to anymosity of our so called friends. This has happened several times with people twisting stuff to make us look bad. We’ve had to clear the air with them thinking things were going to be okay afterward, only for it to boomerang again with more untrue gossip behind our backs to try to keep the anymosity going. My husband has known these people for over a decade and he thought once he got married like them he would fit in more. Well, we see pics of them hanging out with each other all the time and not inviting us. My husband has helped almost all of them with their moves for free and when we’ve needed help moving, we get dead silence. We put a like on their pics on Facebook and they don’t put any likes on ours. My husband stopped “liking” their stuff as a result and we’ve gotten tired of the Stockholm Syndrome. People are just abusive with the way they treat you. If you are a nice person, they see it as a weakness and actually think they are better than you as a result. Nothing but arrogant, rude, selfish, clicky (with nothing to show for it.), jealous, competitive, wanna be one uppers, fake, no personality, weird people who don’t make any sense at all and for the most part seem like two faces. The hispanics here are very hostile. They are thuggish and unprofessional in customer service. I actually enjoyed being around the hispanics in Texas but here they hate you with a passion and give you looks that would kill if they could. I hate hearing spanish everywhere I go even though I can speak it and understand it somewhat just from having to live here, I find it annoying to live in a bilingual state. I loved living in Colorado and I loved living in Mississippi and Virginia was wonderful too despite some of the racism problems. The heat in Arizona gives no relief whatsoever. You are never going to feel a cool breeze in the summertime. It will always feel like a hot oven wind. There are long periods of heat where it is too hot for my kids to go outside and play. I don’t want to make swimming a way of life everyday for months. I don’t want to have to be trapped in an a/c filled building for months either just to survive through it. My kids deserve more than that and so do I. I don’t want to have to waste gas and drive up north for an hour or two every weekend spending the day there just to escape the heat. Who has the budget for that? Especially when you have kids. It’s absolutely ridiculous that they built a city here. I joke with my husband that you won’t find old native american dwellings here like you do up north. I don’t think they stayed here but rather just passed through to get somewhere else. I’m tired of squinting from the bright sun and not being able to go without sunglasses. Feeling the sun’s heat slice through me like a hot knife raising my heartbeat if I’m out in it for more than five minutes making me feel like I’m going to pass out. Blasting the a/c in the car and still feeling the heat blazing through the windows fighting against any cool air. Feeling like I’m going to go crazy waiting for it to cool down in the car. Fighting against drivers who won’t let you in the lane you need to get in and scared to death that it’s going to cause an accident. Looking at nothing but old run down and sun worn buildings and houses. Yes there are nicer areas. Ugly neighborhoods I see now used to be nice years ago so it’s only a matter of time. Ugly brown mountains and miles of dirt, ugly dessert plants and weeds. You can’t fish in the lakes because they are loaded with sagebrush that will snag and snap your fishing line in two seconds when you try to retrieve it. My kids have been bullied at every childcare place they’ve been to and the workers don’t care. Even with pinch marks all over my son from other kids. I had to pull my son out of pre-school. I thought he was only going to be around his nice female pre-school teacher. It turns out on the playground, they integrate pre-school classes and teachers. This included a teacher who is a gay married man who changed his last name when he got married and had an obsession with being around the little boys on the playground that none of the other teachers seemed to notice. My son was crouching down digging in the sand at the tender age of 3 years old and this sick pervert crouched behind him and started putting his hands on my sons genitals outside his pants unaware that I saw what he was doing. I was enraged and stopped him and thank God the principal fired him as a result. Idiot liberal teachers didn’t notice anything at all. Thank God I showed up early that day. I will never send my son to public school here again. Phoenix has been a source of constant irritation for me and nothing but a nightmare. People complain about the cold and snow in other states, but they forget that at least in cold weather you can bundle up. In the heat, there is no escape from it if you are outside unless you are sitting in a pool of water. You cannot walk around in the heat here vs. other states where during the winter when you’re bundled up in the cold you can still walk around in your environment and be okay. You can actually warm up in the cold but you can’t cool down in the heat without being in the water. I went hiking on a cold day in Colorado and by the end of the seven mile hike through a mountain range, I had to take off my coat because I was sweating and it felt good because the exercise was making me warm. I agree with all the other posts on here that Phoenix is a black hole. They trap you here by low wages at jobs and making living expenses to much to be able to leave. The groceries here are outrageously high! Hubby and I have struggled to feed our family as a result but don’t qualify for food stamps because they go by gross and not net pay. They have offered very little overtime at his job because they just don’t have the budget for it. He has what looks like a promising job offer in another state that would allow us to move next year. Praying it works out. If it doesn’t, I’m going to cry my eyes out. We will probably pick up and leave anyway because of the insanity of living here. Thanks so much everyone for venting your feelings about Phoenix. It makes me feel like my hubby and I are not alone.

    • Cris says:

      Thanks for sharing! I live in a different part of AZ but can relate to just about everything you wrote. Hope you guys can make your escape soon. :o)

    • John G. says:

      Phoenix is slowly changing and the change has to begin with the people.

      There are many prospects for Arizona, the best one is to change the culture of Phoenix. Once the hyperloop is built between Phoenix and L.A., Phoenix will become a suburb of L.A., when that happens, Phoenix may actually become a pretty cool place to live.

      The other prospect is solar power, there is a enough low population density desert in Arizona, with enough year round sunlight to provide ALL the energy needs of 1/2 of the United States. That alone will employ millions of Americans and bring in billions of dollars to AZ.

      The future is bright.

      • Another Robert says:

        Life is too short. I’m not gonna wait. Besides, its crowded enough and Arizona does not have enough water rights to the Colorado River to support such a plan.

    • John G. says:

      I find that some people in AZ want people to leave Phoenix AZ, to view it as a temporary stopping place, many of these people I believe work for the secret government. The Hohokam Indians made a home of Phoenix and even built many of the aqueducts, so Phoenix could be a home, IF the culture would change.

      And the culture will change, once the hyperloop is built between Phoenix and L.A., Phoenix will become another suburb of L.A. when that happens, Phoenix may actually become a desirable place to live.

    • maleko says:

      I couldnt agree more with your post. Take your family and get outta of this dog eat dog hellhole asap. Im leavin in three weeks and aint lookin back yikes! Ill need therapy to get over my nitemarish experience in this hellish pit haha!

    • Hey, I get that here in Chicago. Nothing new.

    • SoExcitedNICantHideIt says:

      Your not alone at all! (11 years of hell no more)I hope you and your family move soon.

  46. Genna says:

    I absolutely love Arizona! I lived in Apache Junction growing up. I’m not offended by these comments insofar as the less people who want to live there, the better.

    The disadvantage of the heat by far surpasses that of the cold. Here in my tiny Colorado mountain town winters get down to -40 and we have to deal with snow 7-months out of the year. The snow feels wonderful for about the first week, until you have to wake up at 5am to give you enough time to shovel your driveway, warm-up your car for at least 20 minutes, take a shower in hard water, blow dry your hair, eat breakfast, and then fight bad drivers and icy roads to get to work. Invest in studded snow tires because the first time you hit the breaks on ice, you’ll fly off the road.

    Keeping your thermostat at 65 degrees is considered high, and drives your heating bill through the roof. Never rent or buy a place that is outfitted with electric heat. I’ve had several apartments in my town that develop mold problems when the winter ice melts and your indoor temp of 67 degrees gives the spring spores the perfect environment to thrive. Welcome to allergy capital of the world once spring hits, especially if you move here from a different state.

    Life in a Colorado goes something like this: Shovel, wear 4 layers, white knuckle induced driving, deal with elitists at work, drive on potholes back, get the sniffles, suck on a cough drop, apply vix, moisturize dry skin, stay inside, get stoned (we have legal weed) or drunk, pass out, repeat. On the weekends you’ll pay 200 dollars for a lift ticket and ski rental on the slopes. Better come with some money.

    If you are a ski bum, love freezing temperatures, from California/Texas, or are rich, than Colorado is the place for you. I hope you love it here, and I’ll take Arizona any day.

    The beautiful superstition mountains that change colors in the sun, the living desert thriving with otherworldly creatures, a pool in every backyard, nice weather 9 months out of the year with the other 3 spent in an air-conditioned environment or a pool, Canon Lake, cheap housing, educational opportunities, employment opportunities, pollution levels that rank way below that of Denver, as many outdoor activities as Colorado (besides skiing), beautiful landscaping that replaces the burden of a lawn, saguaro cacti, native american inspired art, low population density, and from the sounds of it, neighbors who stay out of your business.

    But wait, you have crime you say. That’s okay, my little town with a population of 6000 has higher crime rate index than Phoenix. In fact, many ski resort towns do. That’s what you get when you have low wages, high housing prices, a transient populace, and rich people who treat workers in the service industry like scum. Keep your house and car locked. We also have had two major mass shootings: Aurora and Columbine ring a bell?

    If you are a moderate democrat or republican, don’t even think about going to college here unless you can pretend for the next 6 years to be an environmentalist, feminist, atheist far left progressive liberal yuppy who drives a subaru with a part-time job of being a rude road bicyclist and a life calling to be the most arrogant, rude, condescending person on earth.

    Don’t accidentally pass too close to a bicyclist, most of them are lawyers and will sue you.

    Colorado has a higher suicide rate than Arizona. Arizona ranks 8th and Colorado ranks 6th according to CBS.

    That’s why I’m moving back to Arizona in January–I’m packing my shorts, flip-flops, sunscreen, bikini, and sunglasses. I’ll wave to you when our U-hauls pass.

    • Another Robert says:

      Thats pretty bad when you pick one place with sky high crime and gets down to -40 to make Phoenix look good.

    • Another Robert says:

      Oh yeah, forgot to mention theres more than two states in America.

      • Genna says:

        Well, Colorado is not the only state with a monopoly on snow and cold temperatures. But, if you don’t like Arizona and want to leave, that’s your prerogative.

        I’m just trying to point out that many of the things that people are complaining about on here are things that happen everywhere. There is high crime, everywhere. If there is no crime, than you are trapped in a small town with no jobs and the locals are generational and not very accepting of new people. Small Town BS can sometimes seem like criminal activity in the sense that it causes a great amount of stress. At least you have anonymity in a big city–you don’t have to overhear coworkers laugh about your divorce behind your back. People in a city only know what you choose to reveal.

        There are drugs, everywhere. There are rude people, everywhere. There are people with opposing political opinions, everywhere. People are fundamentally the same, everywhere.

        At the end of the day, you have to take a look at what you want. Do you like cold or hot, dry or humid, city or small town or somewhere in between, what are your hobbies, what kind of job do you work, cost of living, what do you find important in life.

        For me, I have a higher tolerance to heat than cold. I’ve always had jobs where I worked indoors. If I turn off the air conditioning in my house when I leave, it doesn’t result in the pipes freezing like turning off the heat does here. I am a college student and the Phoenix area has a lot of options, from community colleges to Arizona State. I prefer large classroom sizes. I like living in a city of at least 100,000 people, and the way Phoenix is sprawled out, it seems more like a giant suburb than an actual city. Towns with high populations and low population density are hard to find.

        Otherwise, the wages are not any lower than other places I’ve lived. In fact, my boyfriend is a Network Administrator and he viewed jobs that paid more than he makes now, and housing in Phoenix is cheap. Nice houses in Colorado go for about 400,000. You may be able to find a trailer for 130,000.

        The bugs don’t bother me. The Latinos don’t bother me–I could care less what language they speak. Good customer service is not a big priority in my life, I prefer not to be bothered at a store. Wal-mart has self-checkout, and waiters work for tips.

        Hiking, mountain biking, camping, swimming, dining, and the nightlife are activities I enjoy. Phoenix offers all of it. You can only camp in Colorado in the summer time, only swim at a rec center. There is no nightlife in my town on account of bar fights (high male to female ratio). There are only a couple of good restaurants. My town is renowned for mountain biking, but there are just as many difficult trails in Phoenix and more trails overall.

        Flagstaff is only 2 hours away from Phoenix. If I miss the snow, I’ll drive up there for the weekend. You’ll drive 2 hours anyway to get to a ski resort here, when you take into account icy roads, bad drivers, and the treacherous pass you’ll cross getting there.

        The last time I visited, the only problem I saw with Phoenix was the traffic, and that can be solved by finding an apartment close to work. It seems like there is are amenities on every corner to reduce the need to drive long distances.

        So you just have to figure what your preferences are and go with that. Continuing to live in a place that makes you unhappy is not the solution and can only be solved by saving up money, downsizing, selling your house, moving, and finding a job.

        Word of caution about finding a job out-of-state. They are generally more likely to hire locals, so it’s best to secure your address first. If you have family or friends, try listing their address on your resume and be available to travel for the interview. That’s how you get out.

    • Another Robert says:

      I dont understand your obsession between states only that have a ton of snow or desert. There are plenty of places that are in the middle. I found a state (which I will not mention – which will only lead to nitpicking) that only gets an average 6 inches of snow per year for two weeks. The average low is 30 degrees for ONE month. Just enough for my kids to learn how to build a snowman without traveling for an hour and a half, and driving it again if they want to build another.The average high is 90 Degrees in the summer.

      Yes, all places do have crime. Although some have less, some have more.
      Just like traffic, crowds, rain. Whatever. It isn’t just lots of snow vs. no snow. I found a state with mild summers and mild winters and a high comfort index. LowER crime than phoenix. LowER cost of living than Phoenix. LowER drugs than Phoenix. LowER suicide rate than Phoenix. Yes all places have these things. Some just have less than others.

      All that nature stuff you talked about is only 10 minutes away vs. an hour or two.

      • Genna says:

        I really don’t have an obsession with cold vs hot, aside from the fact that I hate the cold and I’ve lived in Colorado for too long, and there are only a handful of states that I would like to live in and most include cold weather.

        From my perspective: Colorado, Arizona, Idaho, Oregon, Washington, Alaska and Montana are the only states worth living in. I’m not really a fan of living back east or in California because of the rat race, politics, and cost of living. The same goes with the deep south, where the wages and humidity sucks.

        I’ve been through Kansas, Oklahoma, and Wyoming–nothing there or in the case of Wyoming, rolling hills. Ohio sucks, Nevada has a lot of crime. Utah sucks too.

        Florida and Hawaii may not be so bad except for the storms.

      • Heidi says:

        @Another Robert: I wish you’d say where you are; I do NOT want to “nitpick”. I want to move there! 🙂 I’m guessing you’re in Texas.

    • Another Robert says:

      BTW. Thanks for the lecture on how to move. Most of it has already been done. Thank you. Don’t forget you have to do the same things before you move to Phoenix.

  47. Jake Eagleshield says:

    If someone does not want to live in California because of the ‘politics’,then Arizona is NOT for you.At all levels,we have the most incompetent public officials west of the Mississippi.
    Thank God Jan Brewer is on her way out,but I don’t expect much better from the new corporate hack gov.
    But,what I am really sick of,at least here in Tucson,is how residents blame everything on the snowbirds.
    Everything from traffic issues to bad weather to high prices.
    Fact is,tourism is this city’s only viable industry. Without it,we would still be a cow town,which is how it is run anyway.
    If anyone really thinks that winter visitors are the reason we have traffic issues,then they have never driven on Tucson’s streets in July. Worse drivers in the west!
    More than two thirds of Tucson workers depend directly or indirectly on the tourist trade for their living,such as it is. Treating the snowbirds so badly is equivalent to biting the hand that feeds you.
    As for the traffic,the truth is,the only drivers on these streets,that display any commonsense,road courtesy,or obey the traffic laws,are the ones who carry out of state plates.

  48. Jesus says:

    Gotta Love this Blog. I moved from San Fernando CA back in 2005 to Phoenix. I bought 2 properties and told myself I would stay in AZ at least 10years. I lied, moved back in 7. Once my wife and I had our 1st child we decided there is no way in hell we will raise him in AZ. Education at it’s lowest, weather! Damn! Dont believe the hype about a 3 month summer. I want my son to be able to play outside in the summer the way we did not be stuck in the house due to 114 degree weather. My brother could not have said it any better way. YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR! And trust me a new house with new carpet smell is not everything in life to brag about. Its the area! If AZ was so great then why was Disneyland and every other fun entertainment park built in Southern CA 😉 Yes there is traffic in Los Angeles, but that is due to always having something and a place to go. AZ it was interesting for 7 years but being back in Los Angeles CA these past 3 years, cant not compete. I did meet a few good people in AZ but other than that see ya! My life now much happier living back in my beloved San Fernando Valley and working in Pasadena CA. Yes home of the Rose Parade 🙂 How many rose’s growing in AZ all year long 🙂 To those that love AZ, its for you. Theres people who prefer Chevy over Ford, Blackberry over Android/Iphone, SO CAL over az. Just be happy!

    • BrekanArts says:

      Jesus, I left Tempe and moved to Pasadena almost three years ago. I agree. A new cookie cutter home isn’t worth the mad heat and boredom. The past three years in LA has “almost” made up for the 30 years of hell I put up with in Phoenix. NO COMPARISON! That’s how much better Cali is than AZ. 10:1 better.

  49. maleko says:

    I feel for you and AGREE with everything you stated on here yep. Man your post was actually pretty funny as true as it all was thanks for the entertainment. Yea I learned that quickly here…DONT trust people here NOPE-lying phony faky scammin cheatin twofaced scumbag douchebag morons and idiots. This place is pathetic. Finally leaving in three weeks moving back home to Hawaii to teach and surf my life away. Done with this shithole-drugs poverty congestion hot dusty dirty stinky dry borg ugly cookiecutter bad attitudes illegals thugs gangs need I go on sad sad sad. Never coming back here yuck!

  50. Padraig says:

    I lived in suburban Phoenix for five years in the 90s. My experience there was learning just how cruel and vicious people can be if you have even minor differences. Even years after I’d left, these awful classmates of mine were tracking me down on the internet to let me know that I was a “freak” and that no one would ever want or love me. The people of that city are bullies and sociopaths. The snooty Midwest transplants, the juggalos, the eternally-angry Navajo, the white natives who live on a diet of booze and meth, the illegals who want “their” land “back” (trust me, you can have it)… it’s Mad Max come to life.

    I’ve lived in a lot of places in my life, and Phoenix is the one city I would never, ever go back to for any amount of money. If you live in Phoenix and think it’s an amazing place, good for you, get bent, I don’t really care. My scars are still very much there after years of not being around those trashy people. I guess I should be grateful worse things didn’t happen to me, seeing as how Arizona as a state is annually in the top five of spousal abuse, child abuse, and alcoholism.

    If Russia hit Phoenix with a nuke, they’d be making America a better place.

    • Maleko says:

      Haha wow, I love this review man it’s the most accurate summation of that hellhole that Ive read yet. Need I say more. I agree with everything stated in the aforementioned post. I left that pit three weeks ago and haven’t looked back. The most lowdown ignorant aholes this side of the Bayou LMAO!

    • Iwantout says:

      Such a amazing, and spot on description of Phoenix! I’ve been here for two years, and my experiences here have left me feeling suicidal or homicidal, depending on the day. I feel as if I’m being punked, could this place be any weirder. I moved here from Chicago with open arms. Being here has changed my personality so profoundly, that I wonder if I’ll ever be normal again. That you for this website, and for the honesty of the people who won’t look the other way, and call out this dark, dirty, land of the lost for what it truly is…..

      • BrekanArts says:

        I agree. Phoenix (for all the mentioned reasons) can create some wacky personality disorders. I personally have emotionally grown and matured tremendously in my two year absence from day to day life in AZ. Much less rude. Much less vindictive. Much less obsessed with watching my back.

        However, I found if someone has a serious mental issue (like bi-polar), environment won’t change that. In fact, a bi-polar person might actually feel normal in Phoenix. lol.

        I think nature will eventually catch up with Arizona (i.e. lack of water) and only the really die-hard Zonies will stay. In fact, I’ve heard archeologists at ASU say that Phoenix could be the first “ghost metropolis” in US history by 2040. Can you imagine the anarchy in such a sprawling vacated metropolis? Housing and water rights will be bought with bullets; like it was in the 1800’s.

    • DepressedfromSociopaths says:

      You understand exactly how I feel. Ive met so many abusive people here. An ex best friend and ex boyfriend who stalk me online and everyone harasses me. Its so dangerous. People at school are bullies. Those meth-head alcoholics wander around yelling at people. Theres so many peices of shit here.

  51. AzNative says:

    Arizona native here (I have lived in multiple states and in Europe; grew up here in the 90’s when it was great)…honestly in my opinion its the snowbirds who cause the most problems they have little vetted interest in anybody or the Arizona communities (they just want zero taxes which is killing the state economically)

    None of you will have to worry about it much longer; the entire state is dying at that. Eventually the climate and lack of water will not be able to sustain communities here. Watersheds are running dry and the utility companies are secretly freaking out. Even with rights to the CO river water supply, it will be the grandfathered rights of the Yuma area farmers that will get the last drops. I give it until 2030 then you will see a mass exodus……the only people left here at that point will be the die hards (similar to the types who lived here prior to air conditioning; when it was a blue state!)

    Short answer, the snowbirds will disappear not only from age but the lack of golf.

    • Another Robert says:

      My thought too. My parents moved here in 1970 when I was 3. All there was back then was downtown and Paradise Valley, with Tempe, Glendale and Scottsdale all separated. Now its all one giant metropolitan area. Some would say there’s still plenty of space. True, there is. However, it’s the land area that can sustain people that counts not the space. Too little water here. Wells do get replenished with rain, but the average levels are getting smaller and smaller. Last I read, I believe the Colorado river does not even make it to the border, let alone to the Gulf of Mexico. I’ll have to look that up again.

      I’d rather get out sooner than later. I’m leaving this summer. Plans are already being executed.

      • Another Robert says:

        Oops. Gulf of California.

      • Heidi says:

        What is your planned exit date, Robert? Ours is no later than mid-July. We’ll be driving back across the country with dogs, cats & a few belongings. That’s not so fun; we did it a year ago. But it will be so worth it in the end! By the way: If anyone has the name of a REPUTABLE Phoenix-area moving company, let me know. Since many of you have moved out of state from AZ or even clear across the country out of this cesspool, you are the best ones to ask. I’ll post my email address and you can email the company name privately to me so we don’t clog up this site with plugs for moving companies. Lol. On the way out here, my hubby packed and drove the huge Penske truck himself 2700 miles. We had very little furniture coming with us last summer; most of our belonging were clothes, books, tools, bicycle, kayak, etc. Now we have new furniture that we just bought within a year. So driving our own moving truck back east is out of the question. It’s exhausting and overwhelming. We can pack up our stuff, but we need manpower to lift/move heavy furniture and drive everything east while we drive ourselves and pets. So, we need a moving company that won’t try to scam us and that can be trusted with driving our furniture to New England. I know that’s a tall order in scamville USA (AKA Arizona).

    • BrekanArts says:

      We probably shared the same haunts in the 90’s. Tempe was the scene; Gin Blossoms were breaking out nationally. Things looked really good for the valley. Then greed took over. They destroyed DT Tempe. The greed destroyed Phoenix ArtLink.

      But consider this; they approved the demolition of Montis Casa La Vieja to make way for yet another quick-build, high rise condo. No if you lived here in in the 1990’s you KNOW Monti’s is not just a steakhouse. It’s a historical landmark. The birthplace of Senator Carl Hayden, Arizona’s first elected representative to Washington DC.

      By in large the population of Phoenix doesn’t care about history, art or humanity or anything cultural whatsoever. They piss on the local talent and import mediocrity from larger markets. I saw great people get passed up for dildo’s companies relocated from “more impressive cities” (i.e. NY, LA, Chicago, anywhere other than Phoenix).

      Maricopa County often appears like the entire community who acquired borderline personality disorder, then ambushed, gang-raped and killed their therapist.

      I guess the Mad Max reference above was truly spot on.

  52. Dave says:

    We made the disastrous mistake of moving to Arizona a few years ago. Two years later, as soon as we were able, we moved to California. I will not belabor the point by giving examples of the rude, violent and ignorant people we had to endure in Arizona, but merely say that California is infinitely better. If you are thinking of moving to AZ, rethink! If you are thinking of leaving AZ, do it! There is nothing for decent people in that miserable backwater of a state.

  53. jim rdeards says:

    moved here from San Diego thinking it would be a good idea and its cheaper alternative. we couldn’t have been more wrong.everything from mean people too bad cops just everything in general. We want to move back to San Diego so bad. Even though it cost more to live there at least we felt safe. We are afraid to go out of the house here in Glendale.

    • Maleko says:

      Damn man you live in Glendale of all places; taught there for several years, gradeschool; by the time I left that hell hole you had to drive to school and home in an armored tactical vehicle just to make it in and out of the war zone safely haha lol! You left San Diego of all places for AZ………..wow. Back in Hawaii now and lovin life. I like to check back on this board every once in a while just to do some sweet reflection hehe.

  54. SoExcitedNICantHideIt says:

    We moved our family here in 2004.. It was dandy for a couple years until third year in I got hit with identity theft. An unmarked car followed me and a few days later I received a phone all by an FBI agent telling me that my social security was stolen by an organized crime gang.. He mentioned down the line if I would be a witness and he will contact me. That took a while to clear. I’ve been at my job for ten years and I got a 40 cent raise today and the bullies I deal with day to day is unbelievable. We have moved 9 times already four of them foreclosures by the homeowners. Oh my the neighbors horrible gossip and complaining about my dog barking because she would hold her cell over my fence and call my landlord. He didn’t care though he told me she was crazy.. I have many many other stories. So today… We have decided to move back home. No I haven’t saved or landed a job yet but I cannot handle 7 months of hell heat and an SRP bill that takes half of my paycheck, the mean crazy people we have come across..last month there was some crazy shooter on the loose in which my daughters elementary school was locked down not to mention the numerous lock downs in a Chandler high school.
    No more at least we will have our family in sweet California to help us for a while… Two more months and we are counting down… Yes California is pricey but you can’t put a price on home sweet home.

  55. Kisha says:

    NoArizona, which part of the country did you move? West, NorthWest, Midwest, East, or South? I really don’t like the unfriendliness of people here.

  56. nick says:

    It’s not just Arizona folks,It’s America for the most part.Sure, Peenix is a dog ugly place.But it just a place like any other.Some places are hot,Some are not.Some are humid some are very beautiful.Arizona itself is amazingly beautiful.But it is the system of corruption,lousy,greedy politicians,gun totting sheriffs,dumb rednecks with zero intelligence runing things and not to mention”the get tuff””so called “justice”/prison colony system and destruction of education and public venues that have ruined what was once a great country and yes,AZ as well.Moron,bible tumping peasants are still running things and until that changes nothing will change/But it takes educated and proactive populace instead off overfed,,tattooed,overworked and sexualy frustrated gumbies to do something.

  57. Heidi says:

    My hubby and I moved here a year ago. We had visited a bunch of times and loved it. Boy, were we wrong about this place. My in-laws have lived here about 4 years. All they ever talked about was how “cheap it is to live here”. And they bragged about wearing flip flops in October. The only thing they ever complained about was the drivers. We took their words at face-value and after securing a job, we moved here from New England. I knew after LIVING here for just a week that there is something inherently WRONG with this state. I mentioned my suspicions and my questions on a web site forum. The web site is dedicated to providing data regarding living conditions in different U.S. cities. There are also forums that people can join to post comments or questions about a particular city. People from this area did not like my negative-leaning comments about the Phoenix area. They blasted me on the web site forum, calling me names, saying I was spewing “hogwash” and telling me I couldn’t possibly know anything about Phoenix after living here only a short while. Those people – as are most people in this area – were in denial. My suspicions about this area have been proven true, and I’ve discovered much worse about Phoenix from my own experiences and quite a bit of research. The things that go on here are unethical, illegal, and unconscionable – from the top “elected” officials down to the struggling business owner who tries to pull scam after scam. And the job situation: Jobs pay HORRIBLY here, the “benefits” offered are terrible, there is no cap on the hours a salaried employee can be forced to work without compensation. That’s state law. Since there are almost no unions, there are no workers’ rights, and there’s no recourse for unfair labor practices, which occur constantly. People here are generally uneducated and ignorant, and the government wants it that way. After all, people who are clueless won’t question authority or make waves. As such, the school systems are behind-the-times and underfunded (and funds are getting cut further, thanks to the Gov). The schools use cheesy low-level curricula they get for free and teachers here have little respect, support, or opportunities for professional growth or salary raises. Most teachers make the same salary they did five or ten years ago, not even receiving a COLA, despite the rising cost of living here. The teacher turnover rate is sky-high and the children end up suffering. AZ citizens who are actually AWARE of the backwardness in AZ have continued to feel powerless to fix it. There is no winning against the corruption here – especially with all the power and money being in the hands of a tiny elite few. So, these struggling, downtrodden AZ citizens go into denial, bury their heads in the sand, or drown their hopelessness in drugs and alcohol. You are very astute to have lived here forever and still pick up on the “wrongness” of this area. Please know that there ARE better places to live. It is NOT “so cheap to live here”. Sales taxes, utility costs, etc. range from high to outrageous. The electricity bills in summer – with the house thermostat set at a temp of 78-80 degrees – are sky high. Businesses are constantly trying to scam people; I have been talked down to by numerous repairmen and I’ve had others try to coerce me into paying for unneeded repairs or services. (They don’t especially like it when a woman knows better and refuses). We are escaping now, after just a year of living here, and going back home. Our mental and physical health depends on it.

    • Maleko says:

      Haha yep everything you say is true and all your suspicions are pretty accurate. Read all my entries and I’m sure you’ll agree with everything I said as well. You hit the nail or nails on the head about that hellhole; been there done that for 20 years there and got out but I still like to check back on this blog (just because I can) lol! Yep you and hubbs are doing the right thing for sure….getting the hell outta dodge! Back in Hawaii now surfing and eating sushi everyday and getting my sanity back after being in that war zone for too long……talk about ptsd ha!

      • No Arizona says:

        Maleko is living the dream! I got out too.

      • Heidi says:

        I remember reading some of your posts months back, Maleko. I recall thinking “Wow. Hawaii is so very, very expensive.” But I was always happy for you that you made it back. 🙂 Oddly, living in New England again will actually be LESS expensive than this hellhole. People find that hard to believe. But i’s 100% true. We lost $30K anually in salary by moving here. It is in NO WAY $30K a year cheaper to live here. Where there’s a will, there’s a way. We dont even have a job lined up back home. But we’ll make it work. We have to.

      • No Arizona says:

        Maleko is living the dream! I got out too.

    • Makayla says:

      Hi Heidi, I would not even use a moving company from Phoenix. Drop a pod, load it up with your most favorites and craigslist the rest. Unless a company will pay for you to move out of state, the furniture is not worth it. My husband is laughing at me cause I am literally selling artwork off my walls. Put better items on consignment, jump dump it and drop a pod and rebuy. This is why it will take us a year to move. Summer 2016. A lot of work to do plus need a wheelbarrow full of $$ to make it happen.

  58. Heidi says:

    Oops. Ignore the part of my post above that says “You are astutute to have lived here forever and still pick up on the wrongness of this area”. That part was meant as response to someone on another thread who is a lifelong Phoenix resident saying she wanted out. I couldn’t figure out how to delete the comment above and repost it with that part cut out, so I’m just adding this here. Duh. Lol.

  59. Mike says:

    My family wants to move here, I’m beyond against it.

    My father lived in Tuscon Arizona for about a year in 1977 and says it was wonderful, he thinks everything has remained the same, claims crime is very low etc. He hasn’t been to Arizona since 1977 but insists on moving without even visiting it first simply because it’s warm and believes the weather will improve his health.

    All I see are endless block buildings, never ending desert with no life, intense heat, no jobs for the unskilled, high crime rate, large Mexican population (hey, I have nothing against Mexicans but I do not speak Spanish which could be a problem at work places).

    Maybe one of you guys can convince him that things have changed SIGNIFICANTLY since 1977.

    I’m 22 and starting my life over isn’t an issue but no way would I choose AZ as the starting point.

    • Heidi says:

      Just show your Dad this web site. And, you can send him links that demonstrate how politically and morally bankrupt and backwards this state is. Keep doing your research. I won’t go into specifics; I don’t want to offend anyone.

      You will find that the cost of living is NOT great in AZ, although the AZ realtors and pro-AZ sites try to say that it is. The economy is horrible and the cost of living is more expensive than people realize!

      Also: You said there are no jobs for the “unskilled” here. It’s actually the opposite. The only jobs here, for the most part, ARE “unskilled” jobs: cashiers, fast food, laborers, and other entry-level jobs. Then, of course, there are some CEO jobs that pay millions, but those are already taken. Lol.

      The divide between rich and poor is enormous. All the power and wealth is concentrated into the tip-top in a tiny group of elite. And they all take care of each other only. There really isn’t a “middle class” here.

      If I were 22, I would NEVER start my life in AZ. There IS no room for upward mobility in the job market. People don’t really rise through the ranks here. They stay on the same level at work; often it takes a decade or longer for people to even so much as get a raise. And those are for ALL jobs – even those occupied by people with a college degree.

      Tucson relies too heavily on tourism for its economy. I hear their economy is suffering even worse than the economy in Phoenix. (I didn’t think that was possible). Tourism to Tucson has slowed down.

      Nothing is the same anywhere that it was in 1977. But that is especially true of AZ. The population growth has surged exponentially in the past few decades and the area was unprepared for such growth. Poverty is rampant. Salaries are EXTREMELY low. The reason people get “stuck” here is because they never make enough money to save to move and get out. People live paycheck to paycheck because the rising cost of groceries, housing, gas, retail items and utilities don’t match the crap salaries they are paid – even with an education. You NEVER get ahead. You don’t get promotions or raises at work, despite working overtime, but the cost of everything else keeps going up, up, up!

      Do not let your Dad move you guys here. You all will regret it and you’ll be too poor to get out. My Hubby and I have lost MANY TENS and TENS OF THOUSANDS of dollars because we moved here a year ago. We didn’t spend it on vacations, dinners out, or clothes. We put money into our house here, and we lost major money in salary because they don’t pay anything in AZ. Everything from mechanics to veterinarians to insurance costs MORE here than in New England (which is known for being “expensive”).

      Oh, and I also *thought* my health would improve with the dry air. I have an autoimmune disorder. Instead, I feel worse. The dust is outrageous. The pollution is the 5th worst in the country. So I beathe dust, smog, and pollen for much of the year. My nose runs every day and my eyes are always tearing.

      And, we’re back to 100+ degrees out now. I’m sitting in my kitchen at 9:20 p.m. and I’m sweating as I type this. The a/c is set at 78 degrees. If I turn it down to 76 or 75, my electric bill will be even more outrageous. Summer months cost about $300-$400 a month in electricity alone for our 1800 square foot one-floor home with the thermostat set at 78-80 degrees. That’s with a 2 year old a/c unit that runs very well.

      We cannot afford to live here. How sad. So we’ll be driving back to New England in one month. We’re putting the house on the market. We’ll probably lose money on the sale because we had to do $10K in upgrades to make it livable (There were no appliances, sun screens or water softener system in place). If we sell it for more than we paid for it, we’ll pay capitol gains because we didnt live in it for two full years. We don’t care. This state is a cesspool. I’ll be embracing the snow once again in a few months. But my husband and I cannot live here another year.

      I just want to keep your family and you from making the horrible costly mistake that we made. Do not move here!

    • locolife says:

      Tucson is pretty awesome, if you ask me. But I still think as a 22YO Phoenix would serve you better, it’s only about 90 minutes from Tucson and the Tempe/DT Phoenix areas have a lot more life going on than you have taken note of. You said you haven’t visited, so where are you seeing endless block buildings from? Tucson actually is home to a very diverse ecosystem, within a 20 mile drive up Mt Lemmon you can cross from a very lush Sonoran desert landscape, into grass lands more common in the upper Colorado Plateau and then to the pine forests and a small lake at the top.

      I would take what you read on here with the same grain of salt you should take anyone’s opinion with in life, with a big grain of salt. I know a lot of people who love Arizona and then there’s some like those on this website who most likely will not be content anywhere they go.

      • No Arizona says:

        Very good point. After moving out of Arizona, I am very content! Arizona is just a bad match for some.

      • Heidi says:

        I think it’s a little unfair to say that people on this board will just be miserable wherever they go. If you read the other people’s posts – the ones who’ve escaped AZ – you’ll see that they aren’t unhappy where they are now – in their new state or homestate.

        Are you truly not able to see how living in AZ can suck the life out of some people? Arizona natives get perturbed/defensive/angry when others say negative things about their precious AZ. I dont understand it. If I were on a message board dedicated to airing frustrations about my homestate, I’d read the posts, agree with some, disagree with others, and leave it at that. I wouldn’t assume the people were complaining because they hate it everywhere they go. I assure you. People on this site hate Arizona – and with good reason! This isn’t the “No Arizona AND Missouri/Wyoming/California/Virgina/Ohio/Vermont/Florida” site. People have valid complaints about ARIZONA; they aren’t always miserable.

        One year living here has destroyed me emotionally and physically. My husband had it worse. Companies here do illegal shady things, pay extremely low salaries, offer expensive terrible benefits (or none), and treat their employees like garbage. My hubby worked 60+ hours a week for a year. As a salaried employee in an at-will work state, he can be forced to work as many hours as the employer sees fit. And that’s what he did. In addition, the employer offered a contract for one salary. Later he explained that the REAL salary was actually that number MINUS the exorbitant cost of the “health insurance”, which was a JOKE of a plan which didnt cover jack sh-t. $7200/year removed from his from the original “salary” to pay for HORRIBLE health insurance with crazy, high deductibles and which didnt cover blood work and gave us $55 copays each time we saw a doctor.

        I wasn’t miserable in my homestate in New England. I am miserable here. The corruption, apathy, cost of living, drivers, smog, heat, all bring me down. You’re thinking, “Why did you move here, then?” We though our health conditions would improve in the desert; we were told so by medical professionals. The cold and/or dampness exacerbated our conditions. So, we assumed dry and warm would be better. And, my in-laws live here. We thought it would be nice to be near family. Menwhile, they kept saying, “It’s so cheap to live here”. I wonder if they really think so.

        My husband lost HALF of his salary doing the same work and worked twice as hard and long every day. A friend of mine who’s a social worker, was thinking of moving here some years back. She learned that doing her same jon here would pay her 1/3 less salary. I hear from many people how low their pay is here – especially if they did the same job in another state.

        It is not tens of thousands of dollars cheaper per year to live here than in New England. We’ll be heading east in July. We have to, for our financial, mental, and physical well-being.

        We’re cutting our losses, putting the AZ house on the market, and staying with relatives in CT til we can get our own house. We’ve already spent so much money here; what’s the difference if we pay more to get out?

        I will check back in here when I’m safely back east, as others have done once they’ve escaped. You will see that I won’t be miserable any longer, which will blow your theory out of the water.

      • Anon says:

        Locolife, if you like Arizona, why are you posting on a NoArizona blog? Pls don’t preach to us. If we are on this blog, it means our minds were made up about Arizona a LONG time ago

      • Yes, some people will not be content wherevr they go but many people here on this message board were content in other places they lived. I lived in LA before coming to Phoenix. I liked LA but it was tooooo expensive to live. I couldnt afford a place on my own and was forced to live with roomates. Most of the roomates were cool but after a while a person juts wants their own place. So, no there are ALOT of people who were content before they came to AZ and content after they moved from AZ. Im one of those people

  60. Mike says:

    Thanks everyone for replying, my father read this and is putting a bit more thought into it. Hopefully he makes the right choice (NO-AZ) but if not and things turn to s*it I’ll have this page as proof to backup what I’ve always told him.

    Heidi, thank you for taking the time to write such a lengthy reply! it was a good read and highlighted many issues. Yes, realtors keep telling us how cheap it is to leave in AZ and if you challenge that they become very defensive…matter of fact, anyone from AZ (who hasn’t been to this site) seems to be overly defensive about AZ! Being from NJ you hear the stereotypes of how defensive people are up here but AZ residents take it to a level that is MIND BLOWING!

    Will keep everyone updated!

    • No Arizona says:

      Please keep us posted, Mike! Good luck to you!

    • Heidi says:

      Good luck, Mike. And, you’re soooooo right about the defensiveness! 😉 BTW: My hubby and I have set our “escape date” for 7/13/15. Best wishes, Mike. Fingers crossed that your Dad comes to his senses and will “just say no” to AZ! 🙂

  61. Heidi says:

    No Arizona: Some of us are waiting with bated breath to hear your “escape story”! I hope you tell us the story soon! 🙂

    • No Arizona says:

      Thanks for remembering, Heidi! Life keeps us busy sometimes! I’ve started on it and will have it out soon!

    • SoExcitedNICantHideIt says:

      Talk about health insurance I’m still trying to pay off a $1600.00 out of pocket amount and get this $218.00 a check for me and two kids.. That’s almost 500 bucks a month with a outrageous deductible ….I hope you get to go home home soon 🙂

      • Heidi says:

        Health insurance – and healthcare! – is soooo much better elsewhere. If you can get to CA, you will see this. I’m not sure if you lived in CA before Phoenix. If so, then you already know how much better the healthcare is outside of AZ. Insurance should not break the bank. High-cost health insurance causes people to avoid going to doctors or filling med prescriptions because they can’t afford it. It’s disgusting how bad the health insurance plans are here. Ours costs $600/month ($7200/year) for TWO of us. The yearly deductibles are $3000 apiece for in-network docs and NINE GRAND apiece for out-of-network docs. Plus the copay is $55 every time you see a doctor. It’s $250 if you go to the E.R. No bloodwork is covered. That’s just crazy. I have a few chronic health conditions; that’s just one more reason we need to get the hell out of here and back to CT where doctors are good and insurance is reasonable. Yeah. You aren’t kidding; It’s SO HOT out right now. (You brought that up in your post below). One day a couple weeks ago, it reached 119 degrees outside for a few hours. 119! That’s just gross. I’ve been “cheating” with the a/c and turning it down to 75 at some points in the day. Packing for the move makes me sweat and I just can’t take it at 78-80 right now. I’m bracing for the ridiculous APS bill. Did you know they rack up the rates during summer months? The rates are entirely different during the winter. APS is a shady company, just like 99% of all Phoenix-area companies. I’m crossing my fingers that you can escape this hellhole ASAP!

      • SoExcitedNICantHideIt says:

        Heidi services are very shady ( u reminded me of something that just happened) my fifth graders teacher.. I guess the kids were being kids… Stands up yells SHUT UP!!!!! Then proceeds to write the work for the remainder of the afternoon on the board goes to desk in back of the class THROWS everything off the desk( papers pencils staplers etc) climbs on top lays down and falls asleep… I was beyond shocked since this happened early May they let her stay. I have never ever heard of something like that.. Crazy right???

  62. TheTram says:

    Left Arizona almost three years ago now (41 yr native) and wanted to let ya know we are loving South Texas. San Antonio isn’t humid compared to other areas and its summers haven’t got $hit on the Phoenix metropolitan area. Sure there is a few days that the dew point gets uncomfortable but the evening time cools down unlike concrete city. The wife and kids love the weather here and while we miss our family, we have ZERO intentions on ever moving back in to the desert.

    Every time I call home, my father ask me if were done playing around and coming back home. I simply told him that I now know why God sent the Israelite in to the desert for 40 years. If you think Arizona (Phoenix metro) is normal living, then you can live in anything. When you think 60 degree’s is cold and 90 is normal, you’ve been cooked.

    Keep posting, love following peoples adventures of getting out of the desert.

  63. SoExcitedNICantHideIt says:

    I am almost out of this state half my family moved to California and I’m still here trying to get this condo rented out. I broke my lease going to cost about $4,000 to get out of it. I just paid my rent hopefully if someone moves in I might get prorated…. I get cabin fever because I seriously HATE being outside. It feels like an oven… Heidi I too run my AC at 78/79 anything lower will cost half my paycheck. I pray everyday to get out of here I feellike arizona has me trapped…

    • Heidi says:

      I’m so sorry. I know the trapped feeling. People get trapped here because the longer they stay, the poorer they get. People just tread water financially while they live here, living paycheck to paycheck. That’s because salaries are so low here – regardless of one’s work – and insurance, sales tax, products/services and utilities cost so much! Losing the $4000 will be worth it in the long run for you if it can get you out faster! We are packing up our house as I write this and will be on the road by 7/15/15. We have our 16 foot “Pack Rat” pod in our driveway now. Pack Rat comes and picks it up and drives it for you. It’s cheaper than moving companies, but the drawback is you must haul your own furniture into the pod. I found a handyman company on Thumbtack who’s sending a couple of guys tomorrow to help load the heavy furniture into the pod. We just need the muscle. They’re charging half what the the other companies quoted just for the furniture lifting. My hubby can’t do it himself, and his father is getting on in age (and he didn’t offer to help anyway. Ugh). No, we don’t have friends here to help us. We’ve been in this Phoenix-area cesspool only a year, and despite trying to meet friends (Meetup, social media, work, etc.), people here are uninterested in friendship. But you know all this already. This move is costing us thousands. But if we don’t do it now, the financial casualties will be worse, not to mention how much worse off we’ll by physically and mentally. We just can’t stay here. It’s a corrupt, vacant, cruel sh-tpile. My hope for all of you here is that you’ll be able to escape if you haven’t already.

      • Chuck says:

        Can only agree… $4000 is pocket change if we look at the problem in long run.. I’m stuck here with a mid 5 figure problem 😦

      • SoExcitedNICantHideIt says:

        July 15th???? Woo hoo almost there!!!!! I’m so excited for you… Trust me money comes and money goes.. Your health and happiness is number one…as for friends ?? Ha they are sketchy here I’m not saying everyone is bad but the good ones are hard to come by… My condo is pretty much empty just a box or two and a couple mattresses I’m am soooooo looking forward to getting the hell out of here.. ( I’m originally from Cali I moved here thinking “big house cheap mortgage”) people ALWAYS tell me “California?ooooh too expensive” I laugh it off yes higher rents but when you add up SRP/APS water and so on it adds up to the higher rents…they just jealous 😉

    • Chuck says:

      Unfortunately, feeling the same way…Trying to save some money to get away ASAP, but the business i am running (a small paintless dent removal company) is struggling right now… ehhh..

      • SoExcitedNICantHideIt says:

        Chuck..It will work out for you. When you want something real bad it comes with a bit of struggle but you will get what you want. I love hearing happy stories of others that have made the move and how much happier they are gives me faith 🙂

  64. Heidi says:

    OMG, SoExcited. Your teacher story is like something out of a movie! That just illustrates why there’s a popular Twitter hashtag called #AZBackwards! (I use it A LOT. Lol).

    I have faith in all of you; you all will be better off financially if you leave this hellhole. Keep your eye on the prize. Realize that the longer you stay here, the poorer you’ll be. This will just delay your escape.

    Almost nobody gets ahead financially here. Businesses struggle here, so whether you’re a business owner, manager or employee, you’ll feel the strife in your wallet. There are so many empty buildings in the strip malls that were built but never rented out or occupied. Other buildings were once business-occupied, but now sit abandoned, dark and empty, with the business name sign on the front still flickering at night. Roads in the west valley just stop abruptly and orange DOT horses are placed there because the contractors/builders just abandoned the building projects.

    Salaries are so low here; we all just tread water, working for sh-t pay only to fork over our hard-earned money to outrageous sales tax, insurance, high-cost service industries, HoAs, landlords/mortgage lenders, and utility companies.

    Get out, everyone! At first, the money you pay out to leave will make a significant dent in your wallet. But you WILL regain that financial lost ground elsewhere in another state.

    Meanwhile, the new escape target date for hubby and me is NEXT Thursday, 7/9/15! It’s a tiny bit earlier than we originally planned. But we have been working like mad to pack up our belongings. We’re mostly living out of boxes now. Our first Pack Rat pod is being picked up in two days. The second will be delivered to us to fill on Tuesday, 7/7/15. Once we finish loading that with the last of our stuff, we’ll get in the car with dogs/cats and start driving east.

    The packing/loading has been a pain, but I’m handling the stress better than I’d anticipated. I just keep looking so forward to green grass, mature maple trees, friends, and the basic “normalcy” I’ve always known in CT. The cross-country drive will not be fun. We’ll stay at Motel 6 chains due to their pet-friendly policies. I just keep focusing on the end result – getting HOME! Good luck to everyone here. Keep posting about your journeys!

    • SoExcitedNICantHideIt says:

      Thank you Heidi for your comment you brought glimmer of hope for me since I felt like I was losing faith in escaping… Trust me my next post will be very soon and I will be home in my beautiful state of California…… You guys drive safe and give that leaving Arizona sign the birdie for me 🙂 take care

  65. Maleko says:

    Heidi I have to say…..damn you make me laugh so hard….you are hilarious with the things you say….all I can say is thanks for the entertainment….your comments make my stomach sore but everything you say is as true blue as can be. I remember being in that hellhole…I experienced everything we’ve discussed on this blog…….yep! That’s why Phoenix is so hot…..because it’s the gateway to hell! hahaha lmao!

  66. Bigg D says:

    I got hurt on the J.O.B. that left me mame….I had to stoop low and get a section 8 with my disability check….I always wanted to move to Mesa,Az. so I started the process in May 2015…Had an appointment with section 8 in mesa.az. @ 3pm July 1st…. my sister wanted to come who wants to be alone….So Korry Mahoney at section 8 in Mesa said fine, Begged Borrowed the money to Drive a rent a car, motel,the whole nine yards to get there and back….I was there in a motel on w.main st sunday june 28 2015 had it till the 4th of july..Was looking for a 2 bedroom all the time I was there got up with 3 apartments….Went to my 3pm appointment on July 1st….Korry says: she changed my appointment to 9:30 am. I didn’t get a call or mail how would I have known that….then to top it off now she won’t add my sister…Said I was the first one this happened to…Said she would make me another appointment in 2 weeks…I couldn’t…. I drove from the chicago, rockford il area….I told her I would have to have every thing done by the time I left on the 4th…I was in shock my sister had to take over my interview…If she was gonna be a B*%#! about it,,,, she could have told me, before I left…Now I’M out of thousands of dollars for a lie….Can I Do Something about this and who do I have to go To…I would hate for this to happen to some one eles…She needs to be fired and return my money…I’m Pissed Off, I Have never been to Arizona but this 1 time..And if this is the was they treat people I’m glad I won’t be back…Mad As Hell, I want My Money Back It Was All A Lie…S.M.D.H.

    • Heidi says:

      Sadly, that’s how it goes here. This is “Scamville USA”. Most everything is a lie here. Sadder still is that there’s no recourse. You’ll never see justice. You’ll never get your money back. Fraud is a way of life here. I’m sorry to tell you that. At least you learned not to come here before you made it permanent. Imagine how much more you could’ve lost? People get stuck here because they lose all their money via bad deals, high cost of living, low paychecks, outrageous bills, etc. Consider yourself lucky and cut your losses! I’m gone in two days – heading back to the east coast. I’m beyond ecstatic! 🙂

      • Bigg D says:

        Thanks 4 the reply Heidi, Didn’t no it was that bad….My sister got her ATM Card Breached at A US Bank ATM On E.Main St….Were Still Dealing With That….Thank God My LandLord Says, I Can Stay In My Apartment….I got a crack in the rent a car windsheild cost me 165.00….Still owe my Niece 4 HELPING on the driving….Have to pay for a speeding ticket my Niece got in NEW MEXICO 86 in a 75…. Drove from Rockford,ILLINOIS to MESA, Arizona for a new life….And was lied to just that quick….I am Pissed Off and LOST a lot of MONEY,That I Really Didn’t have….I see you point Heidi, It was a bad move to begin with….I like the BLOG wish I New About it before I left….But Your right U learn from your Mistakes….I won’t be back to Az. for nothing….I hope that when people are reading this BLOG they will not take the chance and be a victim like me….Will be checking on the BLOG from time to time….BIGG D. MAD AS HELL (STILL)

    • Soexcitedandicanthideit says:

      Sorry what happened to you Bigg D. But it was a sign for you not to move here . I had identity theft third year living here. I’m finally making a break next week and I will not look back trust me. However Arizona will financially haunt me for a while

      • Heidi says:

        You’re escaping next week! Woo-hoo! Good for you! I’m so happy for you! :). Hubby and I made it back to our home state – Connecticut – just three days ago, after driving across the country with our animals (and staying at Motel 6s). We are finally HOME! We went to the beach today. I forgot how much I enjoy the ocean. It was wonderful, actually. I know what you mean about being “financially haunted” by living in AZ. It will take us a long time to recover financially from our one-year stint in HellsVille. Let’s set the record straight one more time for anyone thinking of moving to AZ for its “low cost of living”. Bwahahahahaha!!!! Um…It is more expensive to live in the Phoenix area than in CONNECTICUT, people! For one, products such as toothpaste and toilet paper carry the same price tag in both places, but in the Phoenix-area, you pay an average of 9% sales tax on the items. In CT, you pay 6.35% sales tax. A meal at Chili’s costs the same in eastern CT as in Goodyear, AZ. But in CT, the sales tax on the bill is still 6.35%. In Goodyear, AZ, it’s 10.4%!!! Cars even cost less in eastern CT than in the Phoenix west valley (for the exact same make, model, style and options). For another thing: One’s electric bill will NEVER be less than about $200/month in Phx – even in winter when you’re not using any electric heat, and even when you run big electricity-users only after 7:00 p.m., turn off lights when exiting a room, and unplug appliances. And by the way: In AZ, you will be using the a/c from about March/April (part time) until the end of October/beginning of November (full time). In CT, our electric bills in winter were usually under $100/month. Once, two years ago, our electric bill was $89! And CT supposedly has the “highest electricity rates in the U.S.”. (Don’t believe the articles you read in Consumer Reports). And Yes, we use/pay for heating oil in CT, but if you get a pre-pay or budget plan, you pay the same amount every month in winter and it’s not outrageously priced. Some CT oil companies offer price cap protection, and you’ll never pay more than that price. Speaking of oil prices: Phx-area gasoline generally costs only about 4-5 cents less per gallon than gas in eastern CT. A few weeks ago, CT gas was cheaper than gas in the west valley. The other day, I checked it with my “gas guru” app, and again the prices in both areas were about the same and some gas stations in my CT area actually had cheaper gas than all of Goodyear, AZ! Again, CT is reported the have the “highest gasoline taxes in the country”. (Ignore that magazine article, too. And PLEASE, throw away the Money Magazine article that lists Mesa, Gilbert and Scottsdale as three of the top 20 cities to retire to)! In the Phx area in summer, expect your electric bill to double the winter bills during the oppressive HEAT; with higher rates being charged, and the thermostat set at 78-80 degrees in a one-floor 1800 sq ft house, you’re easily paying $350-$450 per month. Two-story homes often see $800/month electric bills or higher. And guess what? You get to pay for all this in AZ with about 1/3-1/2 the paycheck you had in another state! My husband lost HALF his CT salary in AZ. It didn’t look that bad on paper, but the language in his salary contract didn’t say that if you wanted their shit health insurance coverage, you would actually be paid about $7500-$8000 year less than the salary in the contract. Insurance is not salary and shouldnt be included as part of the salary! So, we have never been so poor in our lives. And we never bought/did anything extravagant while in AZ! It was just daily and monthly expenses and bills that sucked up our money. Imagine if we stayed longer than one year. Losing tens of thousands of dollars each year, we’d be living on the streets soon enough. So after a year of the financial quicksand, we needed to flee. We had emotional, intellectual, ethical, and physical reasons for escaping, too. So, we’re staying with relatives until the AZ house sells, hubby gets another position with a GOOD salary, and we can buy a house here. My fingers are crossed that nobody reads this board if they are thinking of buying our AZ house! Lol! Well, the realtors, magazines, and other “data-compiling” groups are still doing a bang-up job of aggressively promoting (AKA lying about) the “Valley of the Sun”. So, there will always be suckers out there (like we once were) who will be lured into moving to AZ with the promise of sunshine and “low cost of living”. Let’s hope the last of the suckers stays long enough for my AZ house to sell. Then the whole area can just implode, for all I care. Okay, that’s a bit harsh. But you guys know what I mean. 😉

      • Soexcitedandicanthideit says:

        Heidi!! I’m glad to hear you guys escaped safely ;)… I am sincerely happy for you.. I have heard CT is beautiful I have a buddy here from CT she always talks about going back but her daughter and grandkids are here so she is stuck poor thing. Financial quicksand great way of putting it this is AZ and stupid me how could I forget all those double taxes.. I went to a Chandler Walgreens let’s see…tax A 7.8% and tax B 1.5% for some brow gel and deodorant..Mesa Walgreens (I ❤️ Walgreens lol) 8.05% .. To whoever is reading this and is wondering about AZ pretty much everywhere you go get ready to pay double taxes on merchandise. I have six more days and counting down… Yippee…. I’m prayin for ya to get that house sold

      • Heidi says:

        SoExcited…Did you escape from Hellizona? I hope! I hope! 🙂

  67. Amber Lee says:

    I honestly thought it was just me that felt this way, but….. I HATE Arizona. Sometimes I think the problem is me and I have to be the one to change, but I was so much happier in New Mexico. I think it’s just the people here to be honest. And I know what you’re thinking… New Mexico can’t be that much different than Arizona, but it is. The heat does suck and it is hotter here, but it’s not tha, that really bothers me, yes the AC bill will be very high. What bothers me is that EVERYBODY is so RUDE! And it seems to be rubbing off onto me. I ask people all the time what they do to see of they want to hang out or do something and they say “oh, nothing. I usually go home and just watch tv.” Not only that it is hard to find a job here. All jobs here seem to suck. Maybe I’m not looking in the right direction, but everything is done online and because you have SO many people looking for jobs…. it’s nearly impossible to get choosen. I feel like since moving here all it has been about is just work, or driving and staying at home. People here will also flake out on you too. And this state just makes you feel drained. Maybe I just haven’t met the right people yet or have found the right job yet, but it’s terrible. I have been here for 3 years and I came here to be closer to family and to go back to school, which school did not work out either, or yet. Everything looks the same, it’s brown, boring, and just basically buildings everywhere! I feel like people here are always trying to be like other people. I just almost feel like I am suffocating. If you want to see a nice area of Arizona, you better plan on driving at least 2 hours to get into nature. But a lot of jobs here don’t pay well, so you are just kinda stuck. My aunt lived here too and she has a bachelor’s degree and she could not find work so she left and she is now living with her parents and she is in her mid 50’s. Ugh it really is frustrating! Nobody has ever tried to befriend me here. When I am a nice and sweet person. I’ve tried asking people to do things and it’s just always the same.

    • Mac says:

      you are not the only one Amber, the people here will not try to be your friend.

      Note, I am referring to the Metro Phoenix area. I’m not sure about the rest of Arizona, but if the Capitol is like this, I don’t have much hope for the rest of the state.

      They look away when you try to say hi. I think this state attracted all the people who wanted their antisocial heaven on Earth. For us, it is hell. Look at the homes, all of them have concrete fences. No ability to wave at your neighbors. I said hi to a neighbor, and the next day I saw their home barricaded with solar shades.

      It is worse if you go to a ranch market. The people will cut in line, and have no consideration of what it means to take turns. This is not a good place to raise a family. This state is politically corrupt. Since Napolitano left, it has been an never ending abyss into hades.

    • Heidi says:

      Amber: You are NOT alone. And no, nobody thinks NM is the same as AZ. NM has some of the same economical issues, and it’s next door to AZ, but those similarities mean nothing really. NOTHING is “similar” to AZ. Nothing. There is a general rudeness in the Phoenix area. People are aggressive, angry, or apathetic and emotionless. People are “unknowable” there. I tried to make friends, too. They hibernate in their houses. Yes, it’s understandable that people aren’t outdoors gardening or playing ball when it’s 117!!! degrees outside. But people are hibernating indoors in November, too. People are glued to their phones, tablets or computers; they prefer online “friendships” on social media to real live friends. They’re more worried about having a $50,000 monster truck with a lift kit and shiny rims than about spending time with family or friends. Tattoos are status symbols. Coach/Gucci handbags are important, even if buying them means your kids won’t get new shoes to replace the ones they’ve outgrown. Me first. That’s the unofficial AZ motto! Unfortunately, everything you say is so true and familiar. Sadly, your aunt’s situation is not unique. I know she must feel embarrassed that she was forced to go back and rely on her parents again. I’ve just had to do that, too. AZ took so much of our money in one year. My husband has a MASTERS degree, and his job paid so poorly and charged so much for bad health insurance, thus taking about $8000 a year from his salary. His take-home pay was equivalent to the poverty level in our homestate of CT (to which we just came back; we’re staying with relatives until he gets a good CT job and the AZ house sells). AZ does that to people; people in AZ work so much – sometimes 2-3 jobs – just to get crap pay, crap benefits and the attempt at staying afloat. But everything is so expensive in AZ! There are hidden costs for things that are unknown until it’s too late. Then there are ridiculous costs for things like insurance, car repair, tax on restaurant bills, veterinary care, etc. They even tax groceries in AZ. In the northeast, that’s considered an insult and an outrage. People in AZ work just to pay bills. One can never get ahead. One can’t have a “savings account”. Our whole paychecks go to groceries, utilities, mortgage/rent, insurance premiums, daily necessities (toothpaste, sunscreen!, cleaning supplies, etc.), HoA fees, gasoline, and other general living expenses. My hubby and I have fallen so far behind financially. We did nothing frivolous, carless or wasteful with our money. We paid bills. Nothing was left. AZ also ruined us emotionally. My hubby was run ragged by a slave-driving boss who forced him to work 60-hour weeks for that pitiful salary. It took a toll on his health. :(. He made ONE friend in a year. You’re right; the people are the major problem there. Honestly, I don’t think most of them care about forging relationships with other humans. Don’t feel alone in that respect. I’m sure all of us TRIED to befriend AZ citizens. They’re just disinterested and self-absorbed. My advice to you is to go home to NM, even if it costs a lot of money to move. It’s worth it! Your mental, physical and spiritual health are too important to be sucked dry by that cesspool known as AZ. Escaping would be the best gift you can give yourself. You deserve to be happy, and AZ will not provide that!

      • Lovin' Phoenix, AZ says:

        You can find many of the same issues in any other major city in America. Phoenix is no different than Los Angeles, Chicago, Seattle, Dallas, Atlanta, Boston, etc. etc. People everywhere have tattoos, are glued to their cell phones, and it’s hard to make a living no matter where you live. Ever been to California? The cost of living there is beyond horrendous. It’s no where near that bad in Phoenix. People are not unfriendly in Phoenix. Maybe you ran into the wrong people…??

  68. Joel says:

    Me too..I am an Electrical Engineer and have no problem looking fo work but the Desert is not for me and my family. So we bought a home in Georgia and its a colonial home for cheap that we bought it cash. My family is very happy here is Georgia but I gotta get used to Humidity . I take shower 3x a day LOL.

  69. Lynne says:

    OMG!!!!! I can’t believe this Website exists!! Just typed in Payson Az people suck and WALLA!! I grew up in this Dry Desert state. I hate it here!!! I could not wait to leave it when I got out of high school. And I did! All my family (except my husband, kids and grand babies) live in this crappy place. So, that keeps bringing me back at least once a year . Allways a funeral starting in 2003 when my 15 year old daughter came here for summer vacation to see her Paternal Grandmother. She came home to me in N. Dakota in a casket. Damn drunk illegal killed them both (no insurance and no D. Lic)!!! I’m not saying All Mexicans are bad. My sister that passed away just 18 months ago was married untill she passed to one of the MOST wonderful Mexican man I had ever met in my life. Anyway, This state as someone else commented is FULL of “Massholes”! I absolutely LOVE that word!!!! After my Stepfather passed away in 2010 my mom moved to Payson Az. She just couldn’t take the cold temps in N. Dakota anymore so she bought a place Payson Az. It is the central point between what’s left of my family. Most small town people are usually very friendly. But NOT this one! If you all think people down in the Valley are Massholes, you should try Payson. OMG! This one is REALLY bad!!! My mom only lived here for 2 years and she found out she had Cancer. Doctors down in the Valley gave her 4 months to 1 year to live. She had been bedridden for 4 weeks with Pneumonia (we found out abt the Cancer during this time). I flew out here to care for her. The family and I decided to put her in the Payson Care Center for physical therapy so she could come home until the end. She only survived there for 1 week. They somehow didn’t get her pain meds. Only gave her Tylenol. They liked visiting with their friends on the phone and made my mom lye in her soiled bedding for HOURS. When I complained to the head nurse she was a bitch about it. OK, sorry I’m getting off tract. I HAVE never in my life met soooooooo many rude, viscous, aggressive and heartless people in my life. Am cleaning out my moms house. Called to have all utilities shut off. Most of the utilities people tried ripping me a new A** H*** for shutting them off. Like as if I’m taking food off their table. You can’t drive even one mile down the road without someone trying to cut you out of your lane and then they flip you off. Had one lady follow me back to moms house and started screaming at me for not getting out of her way when she wanted to cut in front of me. She came only inches from smashing my moms truck! Anyway, This town of Payson As is MUCH fuller of Massholes compared to Phx. Can’t wait to get home where people are like family and Exceptionally friendly! Even strangers that come into town where I live get a friend to wave!!!!!! Hope to NEVER come back to As again! Unfortunately, I still have some family left here however, they don’t live in Payson thank god!!!!!! If I could flip the birdie to ALL the “MASSHOLES” here, I would, but that only lowers me to their level!!!! Thank you for letting me VENT!!!

  70. Laura says:

    The Phoenix area is a hell hole. I have been stuck here for many, many years and
    can never seem to escape, since we own a business out here. We have been real
    close to going once or twice, but never can escape. The blaring sun, with very little
    cloud cover destroys everyone’s skin, which makes also $500 dollar electric bills in
    the summer. The weather is only nice from November through April in a nice year,
    but when the furnace hits in May through October there is no relief. We must realize
    this is a desert with trees planted by man, watered not from rain. The drug problem is
    sick and there are a lot of disgusting, unhappy people. Since we can vent on here I
    will sound very negative. But oh how I love to see rain, I almost feel as if heaven has
    arrived, since the valley rarely gets it, only on occasion during Monsoon season. When
    we travel to other states with rain we cannot believe how green it is, oh how I dream of
    getting out of here to another place. The traffic sucks also, and people rarely say hi.
    The malls are beautiful and the grocery stores are really nice, oh and the movie theatres,
    but basically it is a concrete jungle. Fortunately the school district our children were in
    was good, and they liked their schools, but they didn’t get out doors a whole bunch,
    because it was too hot to play. Some people may say, ” but you don’t have to shovel sun-shine”, I say there are many places in the United States that don’t get a lot of snow,
    we can find them! Plus the housing here is not the cheapest by any means. Oh and
    don’t forget the scorpions, I have been stung four times! The mental health care sucks
    also, and since we aren’t getting political I will leave out the horrible things that take
    place in this state. I am determined to leave someday before I shrivel up not matter what!

    • Heidi says:

      Laura: I agree with all that you say about Phoenix-area traffic, people, health care and scorpions (shudder). And even though we can’t get into politics here, I do know exactly what you mean by “the horrible things that takes place” in AZ. My hope for you is that you ARE able to leave AZ someday. Life is too short to be miserable living in a miserable place with miserable people. I wish you the best!

  71. Genna says:

    Just moved to Mesa, Arizona. Mesa is a little rough, but Scottsdale is beautiful. I love the palm trees, the pools, the saguaros, the mountains, the bugs, the colors.

    I love Arizona and I wouldn’t trade it for the world. So much nicer than Colorado. People don’t bother me either. School is good. Hopefully I can find a decent job.

    • IluvColorado says:

      Also remember, there are people who feel that Colorado is so much nicer than Arizona. 🙂

    • Heidi says:

      Good luck with the “decent job” thing. You’re going to need it. And living in Mesa? Oh, boy. I do agree with you that the palm trees, mountains and saguaros are indeed beautiful. But they don’t offset the things in AZ that are UGLY – in every sense of the word.

  72. Lovin' Phoenix, AZ says:

    Phoenix is Paradise on Earth! The cost of living is low, despite what you read from other posts on this blog. Property taxes in Phoenix compared to back East – not even a comparison! Houses are cheap, and taxes are cheap.

    Yes it does get hot here. No place is perfect. But I never have to worry again about 20 below wind chills and snow. Bye bye snow! No more snow, hallalujah!!! Never again!

    • No Arizona says:

      Yep, the old ‘you can’t shovel sunshine’ point of view.

    • Hatin' Phoenix says:

      And then you woke up and found that you cant keep a job in this right to work state. So much for the “cheap home.”

    • Heidi says:

      Lovin’ Phoenix: The only taxes that are “cheap” in AZ are property taxes. Do you know why east coast property taxes are higher? Because property taxes help fund public EDUCATION! If you haven’t noticed, AZ governments don’t care how horrible, behind-the-times and starved the public schools are. So why bother funding them with taxes? Have you noticed that the CHARTER SCHOOL movement is paramount in AZ? (There are several reasons for that, and they all involve money). Plus, all the retirees wouldn’t stupidly move to AZ if the property taxes were higher. They’ve already raised their kids (elsewhere) and have no interest in funding education with their taxes. So, by keeping property taxes lower, the powers in AZ draw unaware out-of-staters to AZ. Meanwhile: What would be a lower tax than the 2%-3% that AZ charges on groceries? How about NO TAX on groceries? Now, there’s a concept! ZERO percent tax on groceries is what I pay here in CT. And instead of paying 10.5% tax on a restaurant bill as I did in Hellizona, I pay 6.35% here in CT. Also, rather than paying 8.5%-9.5% sales tax on household items like I paid in Hellizona, I pay – you guessed it – 6.35% sales tax here in CT. How about that “renters’ tax” in AZ? People there pay 9% tax (and higher) on their housing rent bill! Did you know that Hellizona is one of the rare few states that actually even HAS a tax on RENT? So, again…Your “cheap tax” statement is being proven false with pure FACTS. Why would all of us come to this blog and LIE saying AZ is costly if it weren’t? There are people here who have relocated to states that have a reputation for being “expensive” (like Connecticut, Hawaii, and California). Yet, we’re all still saying that AZ is NOT a cheap place to live. So what does that tell you? Hello! If you are indeed from “back east”, your ridiculous idea that “Phoenix is paradise” will dissolve quite quickly. Then, when you realize you should never have left your home-state, it’ll be too late to get out of Hellizona, because you will have spent all of your paltry AZ paychecks on electric bills and, yes – TAXES!

  73. I moved here from Los Angeles but grew up in Philadelphia..Since Im from out of state, the thing I noticed about Arizona is the nastiness and rudeness of people here with NO consideration for others. People have NO IDEA what empathy is nor care to know. The drivers are soooo aggressive and will flip you off when they almost crash into your car after they cut you off at almost 90 mph becasue they feel they are more important than you. In general, people from this area think that their rude and inconsiderate behavior is justified by a superiority complex with a bitter, disgusted attitude that is rooted from the thought that every other person in the world are inferior to them with no sense of worth to be respected or even exist. It’s sooooo bad here. It’s literally like hell among the living in which most of the living are shallow, narcissistic, evil, anti-social, sociopaths. But other than that, I love it here! 🙂

    • Heidi says:

      Amen, Gregory! Everything you say is 100% true! I truly hope that you are able to escape the Hell hole known as AZ. You deserve better; we all do.

    • No name says:

      How does it compare to Brooklyn, NY? Just curious.

      • Heidi says:

        Do not leave the northeast for AZ. You will regret it.

      • Nicole says:

        Your probably right, however, autoimmune arthritis is tearing me apart It started ten years ago at age 34. I can’t do the cold and humidity here. I’ll probably end up in CA but Arizonas arid climate is like having 100 pounds being lifted off me when I’m there. I’m used to rude, crazy people lol. Nyc is nyc after all. It’s as corrupt and dirty as it gets. All that doesn’t matter to me. My health does. My kids will be off in different colleges. I won’t be raising a family. I just need a place where I can move without wincing.

      • Heidi says:

        SoCal might be an option for you. Some people on this board live there or have lived there; they’d be best to ask. My feeling about your RA and SoCal is that : In SoCal, at least you will be warm. But there’s stull humidity there. I don’t think it does that high raging 90%-99% humidity with heat of 92 like we often get here in July in the northeast. You’ll have to check out the average daily air particulates/air quality in the city/town that you choose, as well as the overall summer humidity rates. If there’s pollution – (I know that LA is FULL of pollution, for instance) – stay away. Pollution is bad for ANY autoimmune disorder, especially if you’re taking a biologic to suppress the immune system.

        Be ready for the high cost of living in SoCal. In Brooklyn, youre already paying too much in rent/mortgage, gasoline, utilities, cabs, subway, groceries, clothing toiletries, etc. So it probably won’t be THAT much different for you, spending-wise. I know how expensive NYC is. The income tax in CA is higher than most states and their gasoline prices seem to be hovering at about a dollar per gallon more than neighboring states.

        It’s a big move, going from the northeast to the west. I think you’ll be okay in CA. I’m sure others here can give you way better info coming from first-hand experiences. Best of luck! :-).

  74. Soexcitedandicanthideit says:

    I escaped exactly one month ago…yea it’s kinda crazy financially right now but I am glad to be back in my home state 💗💗💗💗I don’t have to deal with opening my front door anymore and my face igniting lol….. luckily I got to take my job with me from AZ…@ Heidi how are you doing????? We got away yippee

    • Heidi says:

      SoExcited: So glad you got out!!! Financially, we’re still dealing with the effects of that year of horrible salary and high bills in AZ. However, it’s nice to be near family and friends again in CT. I’m still trying not to beat myself up for having believed the BS we heard/read about AZ (low cost of living, great weather, nice people, etc.). and moving there in the first place. Honestly, you cannot KNOW the Phoenix-area by visiting – even if you go many times and stay for a couple weeks each time. Sadly, you have to LIVE there to experience the sickness of the place. Anyway, I’m happy for you that you’re back in CA where you belong.

  75. mgc says:

    The biggest mistake of my life was made six years ago. After living 5 decades in Oregon, I relocated to this hell on earth desert. You have no idea how many folks have said to me….”You left Oregon for this place….you have to be kidding!” The weather is absolutely brutal, the people are the most ill mannered, arrogant, uncouth, unsociable I have ever been associated with, and it seems a majority of these clowns are either drunks or meth addicts and look at you in disdain if you are neither . I am covinced a majority of these transplants were kicked out of their homestate for either being such low IQ residents or unable to function in society. A truly horrid place to live. Sure in rains in the willamette valley of Oregon for 8 months a year……but that is certainly better than the scorching heat that bakes this desert for 8 months a year. There are no seasons here. Just warm, hot, hotter, and hell on earth. I miss winter, spring, summer and fall. The cool mornings and evenings, the changing colors of the leaves, the fog, and yes the rain. Arizona does hold ONE advantage over Oregon though….beautiful women. That is it. They are everywhere here. Silicone everywhere.
    I plan on escaping this dump by next summer. Return to home. Yes, the people in portland and eugene are incredibly far left wing whackos, but Im heading to central/eastern oregon to spend the majority of my time. I may return to watch The Oregon ducks run roughshod over ASU on the football field occassionally, but that will be the only time I return to this hell.

    • Heidi says:

      Beautiful women? Where? East valley, perhaps. In the west valley, they are tattooed and toothless. East valley (certain parts): Silicone boobs, collagen-lips, face lifts, nose jobs, tummy tucks and butt enhancements: These are representations beauty? Yikes!
      Well, good for you that you have an easy-going manner about your departure from the hell hole and plan to visit Hellizona again for a football game in the future. . I personally will never step foot on AZ soil again. I don’t want that sick state earning any revenue from my visit in the forms of hotel taxes, restaurant food, or any activity in which we might engage. You are a better person that I. Good luck!

    • Louisa Drill says:

      They have to look fake to make a living.either strippers or gold-diggers.The only way a single woman can make money here.

  76. N says:

    Moved here a year ago from the DC Metro Area… I am use to culture, I know many people from all backgrounds. I moved to Anthem and the first time ever in my 33 years of my life I ever felt uncomfortable and mistreated because I am black! People would look at you as if we shouldn’t live in Anthem. I like North Phoenix but not the racism. No I am not playing the race card because I never noticed being treated differently until I moved here. Nice state but a little racist… Just being honest

    • Hatin' Phoenix says:

      Yes my friend, Phoenix is the magnet for hateful people.

    • How could you leave DC?! I grew up in Arizona but I lived in Arlington for a few years. I have to say when Iived in Seattle I was annoyed by how white everyone is (I’m white), and I’m glad there are a lot of AA people in Arizona. I like that there are different cultures here and it’s not all whitewashed. I’m sorry you are experiencing racism. It seems like everyone keeps to themselves here. Even if there isn’t a large variety of culture in Seattle, at least I had friends from all different races. Here in Arizona everyone sticks to whatever race they are. It’s so annoying.

  77. Laura says:

    Heidi, thanks for the good wishes, though it will take a while to leave the state, I have
    to say I love the mountains in Arizona, I will take that over the Phoenix area! I have faith
    someday I will get out!

  78. Haha. We moved here in February for a year (to save up some money). We moved from Seattle. I grew up in Gilbert then traveled around the U.S. in my 20’s and settled in Seattle. Anyhow I am dying to go back and it’s only been 8 months. I got pulled over for speeding (first time in 7 years) and the cop asked where my area code is from. When I told him Seattle he asked me “why would you move to this arid wasteland?” Hahahha. We are OUT in March and back to greener lands.

  79. Nicole says:

    This blog scares me. I’m a Brooklyn girl with bad rheumatoid arthritis. I’m considering moving to AZ for the dry warm/hot temps. I can’t handle these north east winters or humid summers anymore. I’ve been to Az a few times. I had good experiences, even in the dead of summer. Reading what people say here makes the state sound like a literal prison. I don’t get it. I have a few fellow New Yorkers who relocated there 20 years ago and love it. They raised their families there and aside from the squelching summers don’t have many bad things to say. I know AZ can be challenging with the weather but the economy stinks all over unless your rich enough that it doesn’t effect you. What are the worst aspects of AZ? Curious. Thanks you. This blog has made me think a bit more before making a move.

    • Gwyn Ice says:

      Nicole, I am a native Floridian. I moved to AZ in 1996. I lived there for two years until employment decisions moved us away. I LOVED it! I grew up with humidity up to 99% frequently here. And, mosquitoes eating me alive! Lol… I loved going on walks at night in Arizona and there were NO bugs biting me! My hair could be styled and it would stay that way..lol! I loved going down the street and seeing mountains in the backdrop. I always tried to go to restaurants to eat outside! The ONLY things I missed while there were large oak trees (that unfortunately, require a moist ground to flourish), and the ocean. We still took ocean vacations back to Florida while there. I also saw plants and wildlife that I had not been exposed to here in Florida. This is an Arizona bashing site, so you\’ll only find the negative people here. I will say that during my visits back to AZ, I\’ve noticed the housing market is still not back yet there. It\’s good for a buyer since the prices may be to your advantage, though. I watch it because I\’m a Realtor. I do move people frequently from the northern states to get out of the cold there to Jacksonville/St. Johns FL. But, if you want low humidity, AZ will be awesome for you!! I also enjoyed the fact that while living there, I could visit Flagstaff for snow, Mexico (which is a short drive), California, the Grand Canyon, Las Vegas, or Prescott for cooler weather and a small town feel, and Sedona, which is absolutely beautiful. Visiting in March is the best time, because the cacti bloom then and the heat isn’t at its highest.
      Feel free to reach out to me on FB if you want to talk further. 🙂

      • Nicole says:

        Thank you for that feedback. It was really refreshing to hear positive things about it. I plan on visiting in February. I’ll let you know how it goes 🙂

    • Stacey says:


      Be careful when you read *sweet and flowery rebuttals*. Gwen said she is a realtor, so of course she will tell you what you want to hear.

      Now keep this in mind. Everyone will have a different experience. Some people will have good experiences, while others will not. Arizona has different laws than NY, so continue to research the differences before making the leap.

      Now to answer your question. The worst aspect for me is the theft and car accidents. You will be a victim of one of the two if you move to Metro Phoenix. The best aspect is no snow.

      • Nicole says:

        Thank you for some good info to ruminate on. Brooklyn, New York is its own monster. I will definitely keep in mind what you said.

      • Gwyn says:

        Yes, I am a Realtor. However, I’m not a Realtor in Arizona. I’m a Realtor in Florida. And, I was not a Realtor when I lived in Arizona. I’m only stating what I feel about both places. I have nothing to gain telling someone the good about AZ other than to share my own experience.

    • Heidi says:

      Nicole, this blog *should* scare you. It’s doing its job! ;-). I moved from CT to the Phoenix area due to autoimmune issues, as well. Plus, my husband’s parents had moved there 3 years earlier. I’ll tell you – living in the Phoenix area was the worst year of my life, and we’ve moved back to CT now. With RA you need good doctors, right? They don’t exist in the Phoenix area. I had one doctor’s office cancel a new-patient appointment on me EIGHT TIMES – once on the very day of the appointment. I never got in to see him. I gave up. AZ gives medical licenses to doctors whose lisences were revoked in other states. Yes, I have actual proof. Health care there is a JOKE! Health Insurance plans are horrible. Employers offer NO health insurance or hideous, high-deductible plans that cover little. Then they refuse to give you an Summary Plan Document so you won’t even know what’s covered! (It’s against Fed law, but they don’t care. AZ LOVES defying the feds). Currently, AZ state gov is suing the Feds over Obamacare. It’s a done deal, folks! Duhhhh! (Basically, AZ employers don’t want to be forced to provide the minimum care insurance for employees. They dont wanna spend the money). If you take Embrel, you probably need bloodwork done, right? Don’t expect that to be covered by any insurance plan. And they’ll fight you in paying for the biologic to begin with. (No, I dont have RA, but a friend does). Sure, the air is DRY, but it’s also POLLUTED! Phoenix has one of the highest rates of pollution in the country. And then the monsoon season kicks up particles from the earth that cause Valley Fever. Valley Fever is exclusive to the Sonoron desert – Mexico, AZ and part of CA. The air quality in Phoenix is constantly POOR but the air quality reporters lie and make it sound like the particulates are at a lower level than is true. AZ is mostly one big scam designed to draw the unsuspecting out-of-staters there. Once there, they become financially trapped. I have nothing to gain by telling you this. I’m back in CT. I’m not just angry, bitter, etc. I’m taking the time to warn you that your health WILL NOT IMPROVE by moving to that cesspool. My health actually worsened. So, I’m back to humid summers and snowy winters here in CT. And, I’m happy to be back. By the way – even my clueless in-laws (who had lived in the Phoenix area and had convinced us to move there), have also gotten fed up and moved out of Phoenix. It took them four years to REALIZE how perturbed the place is. But at least they figured it out. It took us just a few months to decide to get the hell out but we were there a total of 12 months.

      • Nicole says:

        Wow. Thank you for your input.

      • Soexcitedandicanthideit says:

        My allergies went crazy living in AZ… It was bad and my nose would bleed from it being so dry I had other medical issues there and knock on wood being here in California they are gone

  80. brekanarts says:

    Ok I’ll admit; if you’re cool with isolation and zero weather changes (outside of monsoons) AZ is probably ok for you. i’ve noticed a lot of New York and New Jersey orthodox Jews that have been moving into North Central Phoenix. They seem to have a very cozy “haimish” community there. It’s great place for insular living (either religious or status insular communities thrive there) and corporate culture. If any of this applies to you, there’s a place in the middle of nowhere called Arizona that will suit you fine.

  81. Nicole says:

    Sounds kind of racist. God, get a grip, I just had a few questions. I happen to live New York and the fact that I’m around all different kinds of people. Be however, illness is forcing some choices. Be nasty and close minded to someone else.

    • I’m Jewish. And Kinda hate everyone equally after living in Arizona for 30 years.

      • Ralph Michael Brekan says:

        Nicole, I apologize for my harshness. It was a very jaded unhealthy perspective. Just the THOUGHT of being in back in Phoenix makes me behave like, well, I’m back in Phoenix. There’s a general condition in Phoenix to complain, bully and bemoan each other and everything. It’s subtle and passive-aggressive behavior you’ll notice at first, and once your familiar enough to not be a tourist, it’s just outright aggressive.

        I finally moved 18 months ago and realized how complacent and arrogant people from AZ really behave. I’m seriously needing therapy to cope with trusting people’s genuine kindness and behaving rationally to kindness. So if I seem nasty and closed minded, I can tell you I’m a product of AZ environment it’s schools and it’s society. I acknowledge I’m rude and crude and generally unpleasant to be around. It’s a drag.

        Considering I was raised in a hell on earth where my tennis shoes would melt to the asphalt and I was literally shot by gang bangers in eleventh grade, simply being in the wrong place a the wrong time, it’s no wonder I’m jaded and unpleasant. What’s more, I grew up on a golf course with silver spoon hanging out of my mouth. There’s a huge income/societal disparity there I just can’t explain. I was there for 30 years and developed a bizarre chip on my shoulder. Environment will affect you.

        And what’s sad is I didn’t even know that I was this unpleasant and unrefined until I moved out of Arizona. I’ve found life way more pleasant here in California where I behave much nicer and have a happier disposition. The nice weather has a lot to do with that.

        I spent 30 years trying to make life work in Arizona until I finally just walked away from a mortgage for somewhere that worked better for me. It’s the best decision I ever made.

        If you have kids, please give this some thought. They will absorb the poor manners and bad attitudes that prevail in Arizona, losing any decorum you may have instilled in them in more temperate climates. That’s the nicest thing I can say and it’s a humanitarian effort.

      • Nicole says:

        Where in CA?

  82. brekanarts says:

    Those dreams he sold her… she’ll wake up and find there is NO ARIZONA! lol…

  83. Rosamae says:

    I currently live in Arizona. I hate it sooooo much. The rent prices have sky rocketed to the point that three only place I can afford I don’t want to raise my kids in. The nicer low income properties have waiting lists so ling you will go homeless before you get in. I’m about ready to lose everything and I have nowhere to turn. I don’t understand it. There are no places for me and my family. No help by anyone. I can’t afford to live here but I can’t afford to leave.

    • Heidi says:

      Rosamae, keep watching web sites like Zillow and Trulia for rental openings opportunities in safe neighborhoods. Keep your mind open about neighborhood possibilities. Even if a certain apartment is farther away from your workplace, (but is desirable in other aspects), don’t decide against it just because its location may add time to your commute. Also, how many kids do you have? If there are two or three kids, is it possible for them to share a bedroom? Obviously, a two-bedroom apartment is cheaper than a three-bedroom place. That way, you could afford a BETTER apartment in a BETTER (safer) neighborhood by renting a smaller place with less bedrooms. The kids might just have to suck it up and deal with sharing. ;-).

      I know all this is obvious. I’m just trying to offer advice to you at this scary time. My hope for you is that you can leave that sh*thole state altogether at some time in the near future. People don’t deserve to live in a place where their two choices for homes are unaffordable or unsafe. Is there a way for you to just get a tiny place for now, therefore saving on rent and utilities (Electricity for a tiny apartment should cost much less than for a big apartment). Then you can put that extra money you save on utilities in the bank, and save up for a MOVE out of the cesspool AZ?

      I know having a *small* place isn’t exactly ideal. Right now, here in CT, my hubby and I (and 2 cats and 2 dogs) are sharing a tiny in-law apartment that can’t be much larger than 500 square feet. But, this tight space is allowing us to save much-needed money so we can get a mortgage for a house in the very near future.

      Getting out of AZ IS doable. It just takes a lot of planning and sacrifice. It’s stresssful and expensive to move. But many of us have found that the initial financial shock of the move (as well as the uncertain future after the move) are well worth it. Leaving AZ has been the best decision that we have ever made, even though the move itself was expensive, we had no job lined up here in CT, and we knew we would be stuck in a tiny studio-style apartment once we got here. It has been a tough road for sure, but honestly, it is not worse that what we endured for that one year in Hellizona.

      • Hatin' AZ says:

        Gosh Heidi, I’m so jealous of you! I know a year later from now you will be so much better off.

      • Heidi says:

        Thank you for your kind words! My hope is that you will (easily) be able to achieve your goal of escaping Hellizona by 12/31/16. You can do it!!! 🙂

  84. Daniel Maloney says:

    Try Pittsburgh.No sun.Filthy dirty.The end of the World,right here.
    I am moving back to Arizona.

  85. sara livingston says:

    this place has been my home for ever and i think that you were just focusing on the bad things about this place if you really want the Tucson experience then you should go to breakers water park. and for the recorded my family is perfectly the same as one in New York. and there is nothing wrong with the people in Arizona, i bet that you got the people in Tucson mixed up with the people that you know because you are one how thinks that you are better that every one enfo to hate a hole state!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And i like your comment Daniel Maloney.

    • No Arizona says:

      Since you were born and raised there, how do you know any different? There is a much larger, friendlier world outside of the desert. This has nothing to do with ASU vs Arizona or Phoenix vs. Tucson. They’re both equally awful.

      • brekanarts says:

        I agree. It’s dreadfully unsophisticated State culturally, as well. The citizens and leaders of the State have no respect for history (the Carl Hayden House, for instance) or creative culture. Right now the State legislature is writing a bill that will excludes from unemployment benefits any individual who performs technical event production services (i.e. stagehands) Stagehands provide technical event production services to plan, coordinate, set-up, operate or breakdown the stages, tables, seating, displays, signs, audio/video equipment for an event.

        The state of Arizona doesn’t value theater and arts professionals. Apparently, the real estate moguls running the State of Arizona feel this type of back-breaking labor stagehands perform is undeserving of unemployment benefits!

        You must conform to the cubicle and red tiles~!

  86. Anti-heat says:

    I’m having so much trouble finding a job out here! I swear between education and jobs we have got to be one of the worst states. There’s also way too much mixed housing around here. I do not like living here and will leave the first chance I get!

  87. Leave New York says:

    Hi guys! I’m a New Yorker and for the past year has been heavily thinking of moving to AZ Phoenix area as I have a friend there. I visited him last January but never really ventured around Phoenix as I targeted the grand canyon, horseshoe bend, antelope canyon area. My friend is really selling the city hard. He seems happy where he is. I did notice from and back to the airport, I hardly saw any people out and about (maybe it was cold for them in January.)

    I also have another friend in El Paso TX who would love for me to move there altho I haven’t visited the area. She’s equally selling the city hard. I’ve done quite a research on both and as far as jobs, Phoenix seems to generate more job postings than El Paso and offers a pretty competitive salary and benefits.

    My question is, you think El Paso is better? Anybody here had any experience that could compare the 2? My outmost concerns from both are water shortage and hot temperature. I’m just sick of NY and the snow and cold, traffic, potholes, and not so nice people.

    • Heidi says:

      “Phoenix offers a pretty competetive salary and benefits”?????? WHHHHHAAATTT?!?! Please do yourself a favor and THOROUGHLY READ THIS ENTIRE BLOG. Please THOROUGHLY READ all of the posts and comments. There is a reaosn that fate brought you to this website. I am a fellow northeasterner (Connecticut). You will NOT BE SATISFIED WITH LIFE IN Phoenix. Hubby and I moved there and after 12 months we FLED, FLED, FLED for our lives back to CT. Don’t make the biggest mistake of your life. The AZ job postings are LIES. You will pay for our own insurance benefits and they will “add” that number (that you pay) to your “salary”. For instance, the posting will say “Salary $50,000 and competetive benefits package”. The translation is: You will earn $40,000 and will pay $10,000 annually out-of-pocket to your employer just for the the privilege of being insured. Then you will be underinsured: You will have a high, high deductibles and outrageous copays. You’ll pay all that for terrible health “care” and doctors whose medical licenses have been revoked from other states. Trust me. I have no reason to lie. I said goodbye to that cesspool AZ last summer. I will never look back. People who are “happy” there are those who live in insular, isolated and/or wealthy communities that are sheltered from “real life” in AZ, are retired and draw a paycheck from their former state and have no health issues, or are completely clueless with their heads in the sand, and/or are always drunk or high. (There is A MAJOR drug/alcohol abuse problem there). Lastly, a Phoenix “native” might be okay with living there, but that’s only because they’ve never lived anywhere else. PLEASE READ THIS WEB SITE THOROUGHLY. That’s all I can say.

      • I lived there for nearly thirty years (from 12-40). I agree with Heidi wholeheartedly. If I were retiring in rural AZ I might move there, maybe. The situation would be like I ran out of cash and needed a place to hook up an RV while I’ll retooled my retirement plans. But if you are working… trying to make a living. Yikes.

        Dude, you are not escaping the rat race. You’re leaving the “rat race” of NYC for a cubicle jockey race in the desert. If you’re starting your life SERIOUSLY go ANYWHERE else.

        If you’re ‘doin your life over’. The do go there and be with the others. The excons, the adulters, the folks who generally didnt make it elsewhere.

        I lived there for thirty years. 30. It’s a psychological trap. “It’s cheaper here…” at what f#^$%#@%#$ cost! Once you’re there man, you’re “Alice”. Like Mel’s Diner, Phoenix is a trap. My folks went there to develop real estate in the 80s and I was dragged along.

        In case you need a reference:

        “Alice is an American television sitcom that ran from August 31, 1976 to March 19, 1985 on CBS. The series is based on the 1974 film Alice Doesn’t Live Here Anymore.[1] The show stars Linda Lavin in the title role, a widow who moves with her young son to start life over again, and finds a job working at a roadside diner in a suburb of Phoenix, Arizona. Most of the episodes revolve around events at Mel’s Diner, where Alice is employed.”

        This Alice Doesn’t Live In AZ Anymore.

      • No Arizona says:

        Great advice! Thanks for sharing your experience!

  88. Selkie77 says:

    I’ve lived in Tucson a long time mostly because my parents were here. I’ve finally decided to leave. Tucson is listed in the top 10 economically distressed largest cities in the country. I am tired of it’s bad economy, lack of jobs, the desert, people moving here because the weather is nice. Our education system stinks and my boyfriend lives in Mississippi a state with more job growth and a better education system. Yes, Mississippi. That sounds crazy but it’s true. People seem to think that because the weather is nice, everyone should put up with the lousy economy, low wage jobs, lack of opportunity, etc. Tucson is a retirement city and nothing else. They’ve been saying for years that Tucson would be the next Austin, TX. LOL. That will never happen. A close friend of mine recently moved back to Wisconsin after 25 years of Tucson, her opinion of Tucson is that it is a town of nice weather and no money. Be prepared to settle for less if you move to Arizona (but after all the weather is nice). My advice, do your research and move somewhere with economic growth not because the weather is nice and you like the desert. Albuquerque or El Paso are better choices than Arizona or Nevada neither of which has recovered from the Great Recession. See Bloomberg Business. I would not move to Arizona.

    Thanks for creating this blog! I am going to add it to my favorites.

    • BrekanArts says:

      Perfect assessment with no emotional bias. I’m so Stockholm Syndrome from 30 years of Arizona that I still exaggerate the few things I did enjoy (Sunsets, mild winters etc.).

      • Selkie77 says:

        LOL. Agree. “Mesmerized by the sun” is another phrase applicable to people who love Arizona. Too mesmerized to see the bad economy. In Tucson, big healthcare companies are buying out locally run companies who have run themselves into heavy losses (University Medical Center and Carondelet). Due to the politics and the same old people running things, Tucson has run itself into the ground. People here are too into self-gratification and personal development to care if someone has a job. I’d like nothing more than to get out of this awful town, I’d rather live in Phoenix. My goal is to be out of Tucson in 2017. Glad that you got out, I may be stuck going to Phoenix for a while. Oh, well.

  89. Carolyn says:

    Try living in Memphis 🙃 We are moving soon to AZ due to family member health issue…but YO seriously don’t look gift horse 🌞 Rainy grey and badly sad here most of the year 😲

    • Selkie77 says:

      If you’re retired, you should be fine moving here. Arizona is a nice place for retired people. Phoenix has a better economy, especially Scottsdale. Tucson has no jobs and no economy. After 30 years, I can say that nothing in Tucson has improved, in fact it’s worsened since the Great Recession. I’d also say that I’m very qualified to speaking about Arizona, I’ve lived here for 30 years. There are no jobs down here. This is because of the real estate moguls someone mentioned above. If you have to work, too bad you couldn’t move somewhere where they have a real economy but I’d pick Phoenix. As far as the rainy grey weather goes, just remember that good jobs are more important than sunshine and nice weather. The latter doesn’t pay the bills or create upward mobility.

    • BrekanArts says:

      Yeah if you’re not looking for work and are retiring go for it. Its a nice place to retire/vacation.

  90. SickofAZ says:

    Arizona is a very beautiful state, however Phoenix and its surrounding cities are not. All the negatives stated previously in the comments section are very accurate and not over-generalizations. Overtime, this place will literally weather you physically, mentally, and spiritually, leaving your soul as dried up and depleted of life as the barren landscape that surrounds the valley of the sun. Obviously if your going to move to the desert hot temps and lots of blistering sunshine are too be expected, but the summers are simply too long. They start in May and last until October, offering no reprieve from the intense heat even late at night, where at 3 am it can still be over 100°, thanks in part to mans meddling with nature and deciding to pour concrete and asphalt everywhere, literally turning the valley into a large brick oven, due to the urban heat island effect. The heat here simply is like no other, and you will hear people praise the dry heat until your are blue around the gills, while your face is literally melting off from the intensity of the suns U.V. rays. Don’t be fooled by the dry heat argument either, it can very humid here from June through September with %60-80% humidity coupled with 100° temps around the clock, you will be praying for rain just to actually cool it down and wash off the valley fever laden haboob that just coated the entire valley in a nice dust bath. High humidity without rain to actually cool anything down is miserable, and I’ve been very disappointed with the so called “monsoons” since I’ve been here, unimpressive to say the least.

    Weather is only a fraction of the problem to life in the valley, their are numerous other factors about living in the Phoenix area that I find intolerable, which i will list for simplicity:

    The majority of jobs here are mainly low pay service sector oriented jobs; fast food, big box stores, gas stations, and franchise restaurants that pay in the 9-10 dollar an hour range. The good jobs are mainly in the healthcare, aerospace, and computer industries which all require degrees and are extremely competitive. When I was going to college here just about everyone was going for a health care degree, since its really the only thing out here that pays anything.

    I keep hearing how cheap houses are out here, yes that may be true to an extent, if you are coming from California or New York or other expensive areas you will find houses out here extremely cheap, but they also are built extremely cheap, and the majority offer little in terms of originality, land, or privacy. When I first moved here I couldn’t believe the amount of cookie cutter homes crammed in tiny subdivisions on the tiniest lots. They all look exactly the same as their neighbors and all have trendy subdivision names like las sendas, mountain bridge, or johnsons ranch. People frequently pay 200-400k or more for these homes, I don’t know who that is cheap for but not me, and if I am paying that much for a house I better have a yard, while the majority have ugly crushed rock yards, or a pitiful strip of grass in the backyard, pathetic. Apartments aren’t much better with the average rent on a 1 bedroom apt in a decent complex running close to 800 bucks a month, not including the sky high utility rates in the summer you will pay having your a/c roaring 24/7. Many people live with multiple room mates just to make ends meet because the average job simply doesn’t pay no where near close enough for a person to live on.

    I’ve found the vast majority of people out here are uncouth, uneducated, untrustworthy, and just generally rude and arrogant with a me first mentality. Their is a huge substance abuse problem here, hence why its partly known as valley of the spun. Meth heads and alcoholics are everywhere here, I’ve never encountered so many in my life. I think the drug abuse, financial stress, and boredom of living here go hand in hand, and I think it resonates a lot of the deeper societal problems Phoenix faces as a whole, people just generally are not happy here and it shows. Along with the substance abuse and illegal immigration problem here this equates to higher crime rates where you will find crime all over the valley, just check the news any day of the week. It doesn’t matter where you live here crime is everywhere and a lot of times the criminals target the nicer neighborhoods simply because they know they have money.

    You literally have to drive miles and miles of boring grid pattern roads that go straight forever to get anywhere here on roads filled with the most inconsiderate pricks on the face of the earth. People constantly speed or you have the snow birds who drive ten miles under, literally everywhere slowing down traffic and just generally having their heads up their ass. On top of that you have speed and red light cameras everywhere, and constant road construction, as the valley is always expanding. Everybody is either in a rush, or in a daze putting down the road. It really gets frustrating and after a while you just simply don’t want to leave the house anymore.

    The air here is constantly a brownish polluted haze, and Phoenix consistently ranks in the top five for year round particle pollution. Many people that move here develop respiratory problems most likely due to the pollution and dry climate that leaves everything constantly floating in the air. I never had allergies until I moved here, but in the spring its a good month and a half of being congested, sneezing all the time, and mucousy mornings yuck. Rain is a good thing people it cleans the air and earth. The water is horrid tastes like pool water due to all the chemicals in it, not to mention the medication and herbicides and everything that has been found contaminating the Phoenix water supply, simply do not drink it.

    I could go on and on forever with the many problems of everyday life in Phoenix, but I feel I’ve written enough for now. I hope someone reads this and reconsiders moving here, after all the grass is not always greener on the other side, here quite literally. All i know is Phoenix is not for me and I am moving on ASAP. Trust me please do your research before setting up shop here or it could be the worst decision of your life.

    • Soexcitedcanthideit says:

      Everything you have said is spot on! Everything. I escaped July 2015 .. Moved to Cali its way more expensive here however I don’t think I would trade it for anything.

    • BrekanArts says:

      Bingo! This is a great assessment, however biased.

      I love to visit in the winter and might get a plot in the high desert for retirement, but I’d never move my family back there. I’m paying the same in Pasadena as I would in Scottsdale (when factoring cooling costs). Sure traffic can suck here, but everything is MUCH closer. Especially the beach. 😉

    • Selkie77 says:

      Very accurate assessment of Arizona. People are rude except in the outlying areas. Tucson is no different from Phoenix. Yes, there is a “me first” mentality in Arizona, a friend in New York says it derives from the large number of people moving to Arizona because they like the sun and the nice weather. She calls them, “mesmerized by the sun.”

      What’s to like about the high temperatures in the summer? And the lousy employment opportunities? Why are all the employment opportunities in Texas? What did Madison, WI do to make itself attractive to companies? Why is Mississippi ahead of Arizona? Arizona could have been something, it had the potential but things became rotten along the way. A friend of mine who recently moved back to Wisconsin says there is no concern about decent employment, education and a lot of other things. Arizona blew it in so many ways.

      California is ok, I was born there and have family. Some of the eastern seaboard states are starting to revitalize though, so there are other places to go where there is a beach. What’s interesting is how New Orleans re-built itself after Hurricane Katrina, yet Arizona can’t get itself out of the economic doldrums. Good for the rest of you in escaping Arizona. I had to go back to school to become a teacher and could be stuck in crappy Tucson for another couple of years. Then I can leave. Thank God! Even the people at church think there is no excuse for Tucson’s lousy economy and lack of interest in helping the poor. Of course, in Tucson no one can help the poor because they’re poor themselves. We’ve got a band of rich people living in the north and east areas and all the poor in the city and south areas. A lot are snow birds on fixed incomes with no interest or money in helping the community. And yes it’s all healthcare jobs because of the retired people, so there is no real income in Arizona, only recycled money going around and around. If Tucson doesn’t start to attract more start-ups, the situation will worsen. I figure it’ll look like Calcutta in about 10 years, hope I’m not here to see it.

  91. Paul Adams says:

    I have been looking for a place to retire and Arizona interested me. I was there once back in the 70’s but don’t remember it well. Was at the Painted Desert and northward. Your comments here have been helpful. My view of Arizona is dated by far. My vision is a Sky King Ranch the likes of which may exist still. Sometimes the BEST place may be the place you grew up in spite of thinking the grass is greener somewhere else. I have a friend that is originally from NJ. For job reasons he ended up in LA and has since retired in the desert of California not far from AZ. I cannot recall the name of the town. He is seriously thinking of moving back to Jersey. Not for job reasons as he is retired. He and his wife came back to Jersey for 2 weeks last year to visit. They realized that they missed the East Coast. Is it really better than some other places, depends, BUT it is where he is originally from. So the caution sign should be out for me and others pondering moving. I know others that moved to Florida to retire or to find another life. Many have moved back. So a decision to move requires a lot of thought as a person has only so many moves in them. So I am finding many of your comments here worthwhile.

  92. Main St American says:

    Arizona (and much of the southwest) will crash and die in time due to a lack of water and over building.

  93. NearTucson says:

    As far as weather, Texas weather over Arizona?
    What are you people smoking…

    Dallas has had 60+ days in a row over 100 degrees before, and that’s 60+ days in a ROW (not total days) with 100’s and SOME humidity. Austin has had 30+. I’ve seen it 115 in Dallas and Austin area before, and I’ve seen it hit 120 just west of Waco-TX. Sure it’s not as common as Phoenix hitting 115-120, but 100-110 in Texas feels about the same as Phoenix hitting 110-120, and trust me it feels every bit as hot when Dallas is 105 and Phoenix is 115, it feels basically the same. And Houston weather, well that’s downright terrible, if its not flooding or a hurricane coming, then it’s so humid you choke on your own sweat, not for 3 months of the year, but for 6 months of the year.

    If you want a greener area in the mountains for inexpensive within a 30 minute commute to a major city, good luck as basically none exist in the entire US (and I have looked). Denver, nope – incredibly expensive, Boise = high income tax and homes in the mtns near Boise are expensive even though Boise itself is not.

    Everyone has their own preferences, and Phoenix is not nearly the worst city to live in the US (I might say downtown Bakersfield – CA or Philadelphia), but I also do not think it is nearly the best either. I’ve been all over the US and lived in many many places, now living in foothills outside of Tucson (where I’m about 3-5 cooler than Tucson, and 10-15 degrees cooler than Phoenix). Love it here, and there are jobs within 20-35 minute commute, and compared to where I am from, well this commute is nothing, I used to commute over an hour in traffic.

    Nicest Cities IMO (subjective of course) are Portland, Seattle, San Diego, Fayetteville-AR, Knoxville-TN, and Boise. However, other than San Diego, those places are too cold during most of the year (other than Fayetteville which has no major economy). So no matter where you go, there are drawbacks. The SE is too humid (has some nice cities too), the midwest way too cold, the NE too cold, California too expensive, etc… What is left? Basically Utah – AZ – NV – NM.

    First off, you guys are putting Texas on a pedestal, and some of you have it VERY wrong about some cities in Texas. Texas has changed drastically in the past 5 years as far as cost of living is concerned, other than Fort Worth area or San Antonio, you can no longer buy NICE $150k homes within 10-20 minutes of commutable job markets, and there are high property taxes. Unless you are in a high-income bracket and the AZ income tax takes the difference of savings, Texas is NOT cheaper than Arizona, it is not even close anymore.

    Houston and Austin have been the biggest change, the home prices have gone way up, unless you want to live near or in a high-crime area. Dallas has some areas left that are cheap, but the commute is pretty bad.

    Traffic in Dallas and Houston is far far worse than Phoenix, and IMO Houston traffic has now way surpassed Dallas (except for a few spots). Houston traffic is very similar to Chicago now.

    • BrekanArts says:

      I agree. Houston was a swamp. However it’s a swamp with a beach; Galveston. As a surfer, who learned to surf in Texas, I’d say Houston/Phoenix are a comparative wash, with Houston having the advantage. When the job market tanked in Houson, 1/3rd of the real estate market shifted to Phoenix. A lot of lives have been spread out along the I-10 between Houston and Phoenix. Personally, I prefer some degree of humidity to “dry heat”.

      I LOVE Pasadena, which is comparable to a Scottsdale with great proximity to everything good about California.

      If I went back to Texas to retire it would be Corpus and if it were in Arizona, it would be Prescott or Payson. You just have to know what you want.

      I do not want to live in Phoenix. But I don’t want to live in Van Nuys either. 😉

  94. NearTucson says:

    The thing about Arizona is even though it is VERY hot some of the year, it’s usually nice at night when its hot in the day. Texas weather sux at night in the summer, like massively.

  95. NearTucson says:

    I think a lot of people picked the wrong places to live, guess they had no choice due to work.

    Laughing at people that think San Antonio cools off at night in the summer, the last couple SUMMERS in Texas were incredibly unusually mild, just wait. This summer has also started out unusually mild in Texas, but the pattern will likely change back by end of this summer or next year. People that lived in Texas in 2010 to 2013 know how hot it gets.

  96. Wendy Merrimanw says:

    I have never felt so sick and depressed as I do in Arizona. I hate everything about this place but can’t afford to leave. So here I am.

    • Soexcitedandcannothideit says:

      If there is a will there is a way. Don’t think you cannot leave at one point I felt the same I couldn’t afford to move but I did it I moved the whole family and yes I’m not living in a McMansion here in California but I am a million times happier. You can escape too.

    • BrekanArts says:

      I grew up there and literally gave up 18 years of homeownership (walkaway short sale) and seriously downsized (from 2000sq ft to 1000sq ft) our family of seven. It was a rough adjustment the first year, but overall we are all much happier.

      Aside from the brutal exterior environment, which creates couch potatoes. There’s such a glut of consumerism and a general laziness about life in Arizona that makes anyone living there for more than year ungrateful, impatient and unpleasant. The marketplace is so instant gratification, and comfort oriented, that any minor interruptions are HUGE emotional conflicts. It’s amusing when you go back and visit, but after a week of visiting you find yourself sinking into the nasty attitude that purveys the valley psyche.

      I may not have big box stores with a psuedo-luxury residence, nor travel convenience here in Los Angeles, but I have awesome environment and pleasant people to live around and endless free outdoor activities to be enjoyed anytime of the year, anytime of the day, without fear of dehydration or heat stroke.

      And as far as neighborhoods are concerned, I’d rather live in Watts or Inglewood than in 90% of Phoenix. There’s no cultural or aesthetic diversity in Arizona. It reminds me of the INland Empire or Orange County (two areas of So Cal I won’t live in either)… Tan, tan, tan… or the other favorite color scheme Beige, beige, beige, blah.

  97. BrekanArts says:

    I must give a shout out to Phoenix Artlink community and it’s dedicated artists who persist with the insane heat, backwards politics and shallow, sports-minded community at large. The artists in Phoenix are legit bohemians and probably the best thing about the city. They are the only reason ballparks and condos exist downtown Phoenix today. Those ballparks were slated to be built in the burbs (ie out in Glendale or Tempe); but the art scene was drawing people downtown in the late 90s. I was a part of that trend. 😉

  98. NearTucson says:

    Tucson is about the hottest weather I could possibly stand, I can see why so many do NOT like Phoenix, it’s just way too hot. Northern Arizona is pretty nice, but just not many jobs in those smaller cities, as with all smaller cities. I guess there is for certain types of fields.

  99. kiara says:

    Wall to wall drug addicts. Arizona has a real drug problem.

  100. Shelby says:

    I am so glad I found this blog. I always thought I was the only one who felt this way. I finally got out of this hell hole after 31 years which was most of my life. I can’t think of one thing I miss besides Carolina’s Mexican food. I am so glad that I am not dealing with the record heat of last week. It is true that a lot of people are confrontational, and rude. Employers treat people like garbage. It is so nice to meet people who hold the door open for you and are polite. Most of the stuff you outline on here is true. There is a huge drug problem in Arizona, schools are sub par, and people are just mean. I got quite the chuckle when you were describing your neighbors turning away when you were driving down the street. It is so true. I was not going to damn my kids to a fate known as Arizona.

    I never realized how much I missed trees and grass rather than the bland, beige desert. I wasn’t going to stay in a place because of its close proximity to California. That is another thing I noticed is that people in Scottsdale think they are in Beverly Hills. My power bill was only $78 last month and I know it would be $350 in Phoenix. The $550 power bills are now a thing of the past. Thanks for creating this blog.

  101. Ryan Dobosz says:

    Im so glad I found this site. I moved from Chicago a year ago because my girlfriends family all moved here and he father got sick , so here I am. At first it was nice, Mountains, Palm trees and nice weather, but when June came around and it got as hot as the surface of the sun, I realized that people are not meant to live in this horrible oven called Phoenix. I live in Chandler but work all around the Phoenix area, and coming from Chicago I’m used to shitty areas, but Phoenix is one big piece of trash in my opinion. The whole metro area has zero character in my opinion. All I see is horrible areas with people of the like. Never in my life have I seen so many people begging for money on the streets, and mind you I come from a city with a good population of homeless and crime. I have yet to see anyone begging try to wash my car windows for spare change, instead I see people who dont even look homeless standing by the highway with a sign just asking for money. Everything looks the same where I live. Chandler, Gilbert and the like have no character and way to many grocery stores and places to shop and eat, what is up with that? I dream of the day I get to pack up and move from this hell on earth, trying to convince my girlfriend to do the same is a bigger task though. For some reason she just thinks this place is paradise, she is also from Chicago and hates the winters and I feel she has a certain tought of this place because she went to school here and had great times at that point in her life. I just want to go back east and see some green grass and trees.

    • Hatin' Phoenix, AZ says:

      Hi Ryan,

      Your lady is suffering from “mesmerized by the sun” syndrome. Don’the worry, she will come to her senses one day. You are correct that Chicago is better. I feel bad about the culture shock you are experiencing. Unfortunately, people actually think a waterless brown desert is paradise.

      To Heidi and No Arizona, thanks for the well wishesand escape instructions. I am proud to announce that I will escape HellIlona this Fall! Woo Hoo!

  102. I may die by my decision to move to this he’ll hole. I move here specifically for a $52k job that turned out to have been misrepresented by the bs religious hypocrite owner. I won’t bother going into detail.

    I have been searching for a replacement job for fl nearly four weeks. There is nothing in my industry, and outside of it most of the jobs here are $10 to $12 per hour and thone employers want my left nut, multi paragraph ad posts for shit jobs, plain and simple.

    I applied for a Crappo admin job and they had me take a personality assessment, aptitude test, and then the hiring Mgr told me I had to pay $40 for a drug test. If I passed they would bring me back for a second interview. Fuck them!

    This is a shit ass police state where people accept minimum wage and smile about it. If you move to AZ and aren’t a doctor get ready to work for pure commission or slave wages.

    I am packing right now and will never mention this Turd of a state again.

    • Wendy Merriman says:

      Agree with everything you said. But now you know you need to do better research, preparation and get some education under belt to be more marketable. Good luck! I envy you putting AZ in the rearview.

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  104. Amyndshifter says:

    I’m glad I came here to get some perspective. I moved here from cold Canada to work in January of 2015 and loved it here until my work situation changed 6 months ago. Me and my family were expecting me to take a new role with a massive salary increase and our sights were set on a nice life. We have just a few friends here of course and miss our family and childhood friends so it has been a mix of highs and lows. The scenery and desert is different than what I’m used to so it’s exciting and beautiful to me. Just got a denial from US customs for my work visa conversion so I’m moving back to Canada. It’s been a difficult past week knowing we’re saying goodbye to a place we’ve settled into for almost two years but this blog helps us with a reality check. I saw Phoenix worth rose colored glasses and ignored some of the downsides because of the money and not having to shovel snow. I’m coming to terms with leaving and Phoenix has helped me appreciate the city I was raised in up in Canada. I’ll be back for vacations in the winter!

  105. Ash says:

    Hello! I have posted here once before and agree with the purpose and majority opinion on this blog. I do have some questions for those who got out. My husband is hesitant about moving out of state (he’s not from here, he’s just “comfortable”), and I’ve tried numerous times to come to terms with this being our home, but I always come back around and want to leave. I’m curious if those who left had families (children and/or family that were staying behind), where you moved to, if you had jobs upon arrival, and if you have any regrets. I know it will be hard but I really feel it will be worth it in the end! Any input is appreciated.

    • BrekanArts says:

      First off, let me address the comment “he’s just “comfortable”. This sums up Arizona culture to a large extent. It s very easy to get comfortable with 120 channels and HVAC, big box stores with ample parking. Especially if you have a stable job.

      You can’t blame a person if they are content. My dad and mom are there and they love it. They travel out of state frequently and my father is an avid golfer. He’s in heaven.

      My wife has had a very difficult adjustment to the image absorbed culture, rat-race hustle and urban congestion here in California.

      We have five children, one who who stayed a year to finish her senior year of high school in Phoenix. I advanced the family as I had the job in California. My only regret is not better preparing the short sale of my home in AZ. Along the way we were burglarized. Otherwise, it is the best career move I could have ever made. But I’m an artist and filmmaker. Films aren’t being made in Arizona at the frequency that they were shot in the 1990’s.

      I guess it’s relative to your career path. Real Estate professionals and civic employees should be happy with everything but the heinous heat (which can be avoided by scheduling your tennis match early Am ;). For a creative, the economic conditions in Phoenix the past ten years relegated me to seeking income from out of state long before I bit the bullet and decided to leave permanently.

      • Ash says:

        Thank you! Glad to hear that overall you survived! Sounds like you’re in a much better place for your career path. I know I wouldn’t survive a day in CA. We’re looking for some place smaller rather than larger/busier. I agree about the “comfortable” comment. He’s not happy, just more afraid to start over again which I understand. It is hard! We have good/stable jobs which is more than a lot of people can say. However, I wouldn’t call our jobs “careers” although we both have degrees. He’s in sales and I’m in PM. We also own a home which is another thing to consider. Thanks again!

  106. Chez isaac says:

    Born and raised in the far west arizona area close to blythe California. I moved to Phoenix 20 years ago and the most annoying thing i experience is these people from Phoenix not liking anyone just because their from California, its so stupid and annoying. I hate those stupid stickers i keep seeing that has the arizona outline that says ” Not Cal”.

  107. Still Lovin' Phoenix, AZ says:

    Phoenix is heaven! Especially this time of the year now that the extreme heat is over. How can anybody not love it here?

  108. Stephen says:

    I’ve lived in AZ for 23 years and can’t wait to move. I’m OK with the heat. Depends on where you go people can be good or bad but this is the same with any state you travel to. Though most native AZ that I know are jerks that never learned manners. Before my family moved here we were on good terms with each other. It might be us growing up but I feel that AZ just destroyed my family. Can’t wait to move out of here and leave AZ in the dust. Although many people may not like Texas, Davy Crockett once said, You may all go to hell and I will move to Texas. 2017 moving out of this pit of hell!

    • Gwyn Ice says:

      Hey guys! I lived in AZ for two years and had one of my sons there at Thunderbird Samaritan! I’m a native Floridian, but went there for a couple of years when employment took me there. Honestly, I loved the difference in culture. I loved going on night walks in the low humidity and not feeling like I need to take a shower when I came back inside…lol. I loved going to restaurants and eating outside (at times under misters)! I enjoyed being outside more than ever before. I loved the different plants like the Ocotillo! I thought that was the coolest plant to unearth it, then replant it a year later and it would live! I also enjoyed all the Native Indian influence there! I came back and kept some Southwest styles in our home here like a pool with genuine boulders and rocks, and a few other AZ touches throughout our home! Anyway, I returned to Jacksonville, FL and I’m a real estate agent. I bring people here from all over! Please feel free to contact me at 904-803-8505 if you want to check out the largest city in the country, Jacksonville! We have something for everyone…. ocean property, farm areas, an abundance of golf course properties, townhomes/condos near St JohnsTown Center shops, etc.. You name it, it’s here! There are 3 major counties in the Jacksonville area….Duval, Clay, and St Johns! St Johns county is growing and had the best schools in the state and ranks high in the U.S.!

  109. HOT IN AZ says:

    I moved here 2 years ago with my spouse who medically needed a dry, warmer climate and it sucks, sucks, sucks! I am stuck until I die or divorce him. I am miserable! I would leave if I came into a large amount of money. Maybe I should start a Go Fund Me Page to get out of this miserable state!

  110. simone says:

    Hi my name is simone I’m really desperate to get out of arizona if i had the money i would leave right now. I don’t feel like home here i feel very out of place i feel if i don’t get out of arizona soon i am going to go insane i hate how the driving here i hate the heat i hate that it feels soo crowded i am a country girl i feel move at home in the country. I really wish i had the money and the resources to just leave i would just pick up and go and probably never look back. There is nothing for me here. I been praying God please get me out of here

  111. Michael says:

    I’ve lived in Arizona most of my life and never felt at home hear. It’s not the heat, the illegals that’s everywhere. The economy in the Phoenix area sucks. I have no kids but remembering growing up the school system has always been terrible. West Mesa is so run down I’m surprised any business would try to open shop. If you are looking for a good paying job I’d suggest to move somewhere else. I’m working 2 jobs to get out of this place. Some might think that’s dumb but I want to get out so it’s my job to find a way out and not look for others to help. There are some small time jobs here but nothing that would bring much business here to the valley of the sun. So to those that think highly about Phoenix, peace out!

    • BrekanArts says:

      You can do it! I grew up there. Graduated from McClintock High. It sucks ass. Everything and anything good there (South Scottsdale in the 80’s, Mill in the 90s, Phoenix ArtLink in the early 2000s), gets destroyed for greed and “redevelopment”.

      After 20 ears of struggling as an artist there, I lost my mind, became a religious fanatic, and it finally took literally almost losing everything (job, house, close friends) to finally make me pack up my family and go. Phoenix is a very, very, very, (VERY) gnarly place to make a living as a working class person. It’s a definitely a place to vacation and maybe retire with some cash for affordable housekeeping and a gardener. But, if you don’t have the means to live the upper middle class, country club lifestyle, it’s pretty brutal. The Phoenix economy runs on the exploit of wage earners, so it’s diminishing returns for the middle class, and day-labor opportunities for anyone without a college degree. Not to mention, one of the most wacky real estate markets in the world.

  112. Kelinda says:

    Phoenix is not the worst place in the world. I just feel really could be a lot more progressive. I moved her 9 months ago and I will be here another 9 months then it’s back to civilization for me.

    There is no culture here. U have to dog around for it and seek it out. The ppl here are some of the most trashiest uncultured folks I have ever encountered. I’m not sure about Arizona schools but it’s a failed institution. Drugs are rampant here. Yes they are everywhere but it’s magnified here.

    Arizona has a rep for being racist. As a minority I don’t see a lot of racism. I see a lot of white trash wannabe elitist void of any culture or integrity. Scottsdale may have the money but lack polish and refinement. It’s weird to see a “snob” from Scottsdale step out of a bmw with crusty feet *2 week old pedicure*, liver spots and age spots *the Sun here is just brutal* with a Chanel bag in tow. It’s screams ..LACK and desperation. Lol

    Phoenix lacks sophistication that most larger cities tend to have. I would be willing to pay more taxes to have better roads or functional libraries. Oh well

    • Maleko says:

      Haha…..love the scottsdale part so true lol……great review!

    • Scott says:

      Phoenix is not the worst place in the world let alone the southwest which is the only real parts I’ve been around but there are better places. I’ve lived here for so long I don’t really know what culture means unless I go out of Phoenix then I feel out of place. As for schools well Arizona does rank below Alabama so you can only think how bad that is.

      As for the other comments, in my option no matter where you are you will see that. Drugs are always going to be there. Racism is just uneducated people trying to act superior. As for the Phoenix comment I’ve been to LA, Dallas, and a few other places and to me it’s a toss up. But again I’ve lived here forever so I might be bais.

      Well you ask many people in the Phoenix and they will using call Scottsdale, Snobsdale for a reason. The taxes will yes we might have a lower cost of living here but if you get too low a cost of living then everything turns out like most of Tempe or west Mesa so ya…

      • BrekanArts says:

        East Tempe/West Mesa is a rough place to grow up man. I lived there from 1987 to 2014. Really, really, brutal weather. No matter how many stripmalls they throw up, it’s no reprieve from the six plus months of killer heat. Which creates really brutal characters. I’m seriously grateful I was able to get a job in Pasadena. I thought I was doomed to death there. I’m doomed to death here too, but I don’t feel it pressing down on me every day of my life. Evern with Phoenix Artlink and the growth of the art scene teh culture is seriously lacking.

        I never liked MLB or NBA so plopping those arenas on top of our art spaces (forcing us to the more pricey Roosevelt Row) wasn’t very encouraging either.

        I think Scott is really lucky to not have it impact his psyche like it did for mine. I’m sure a great day job, a stucco home with a pool and Diamondback Dog complete his search for meaning in life. I just need a whole lot more and there’s not much more to offer in Maricopa county.

  113. David Linton says:

    One could make a blog just like this except NoFlorida – at least you guys have Flagstaff and Sedona, Florida doesn’t have anyplace nice.

    • Heidi says:

      Key West!!!

    • Heidi says:

      Start the FL blog, David! I’d LOVE to know more about FL. I know some of the areas and where not to go at night (as well as where TO go for a great meal or drink, beach or hotel). I know where all the elderly people live in the southeast and in the central to central-east of the state. I know that like AZ, FL was hit hard by the recession in ’08 and home prices went plummeting downward. Communities just stopped being built and contractors up and disappeared halfway though their projects, leaving empty, half-complete houses standing abaondoned with overgrown lawns.

      Lately though, the house prices even in shitty FL cities are outrageous! How long will THAT go on before the bubble bursts again – as it always does. I regularly visited the southeast coast of FL 1-2 times/year for 20 years straight b/c my grandparents had lived in Lake Worth and in Lantanta. I would stay with them for weeks at a time each time I flew down there. I have experienced many area farmers’ markets, liquor stores, the social security office, local-yokel restaurants, nicer restaurants, chain stores, hospitals, the Boynton Beach mall, and plenty of grocery stores and pharmacies multiple, multiple times over the years in that Lantana/West Palm Beach/Lake Worth area.

      I have gone to the west coast of FL and that famous expensive key there (forgot its name) with the whitest sand you can find in the U.S. I was in Sarasota, Bradenton, St. Pete, etc. for visits with friends, museums, and baseball spring training. I found it refreshing. I visited and toured crazy expensive places like Naples, Palm Beach and Boca, just to see how the “other half” lives. Of course, I’ve been to Tampa, Ft. Lauerdale and Orlando multiple times for all the tourist traps. I’ve also spent a week or so in St. Augustine. I found it to be beautiful and full of rich history. I heard from a friend that was born and raised in the FL panhandle that there’s a ghetto section in St. Augustine! Ugh. I guess it was hidden; I never saw it while I was there.

      I’d be so happy to get the inside scoop on FL. My hubby is about 15 years from retirement now. Our dream-move to AZ was a devastating bust. We thought we could thrive there while still working. As we’ve said before, nobody can truly LIVE on salaries drawn from and AZ business, company, school, or enterprise. You will be POOR. I hear the same is true of FL. If you are retired and your money comes from a different state, you will be able to afford some parts of FL (obviously NOT Naples or Palm Beach, of course). We are now back in the northeast for those aforementioned 15 years. So, my newest dream for 15 years in the future, is to move to Key West. Yes, we have visited. We flew to Miami and drove down to Key West. It’s the only place in the U.S. that has NEVER had frost. You see, I’m a sun-lover and I’ve always tried to chase the sun. I guess that was part of the reason for the erroneous move to AZ. Sure there was sun, but all that went with it was too much to live with. I had to give up the sun and come back my more rational, yet often cloudy and cold, home state.

      Key West is a pipe dream, I guess. The housing is SOOOOO expensive. I’d like to not be in a condo. There are little houses which are adorable. Yet they are SMALL and need work inside. You get to buy a tiny 600 sq ft shack that needs a paint job, new flooring, new cabinets, new counters and appliances all for $500,00+ (and that’s the low end and farrrrr away from Duvall). Often those tiny $500K houses also come with exorbitant HOA fees, even though they are detached properties. (It is the same as AZ in that sense).

      Perhaps my dream is silly, because I only visited Key West ONCE. I have done some research about it, but perhaps the info is false and promoting, as was the “research” I did for AZ before I moved there. When I visited Key West, it was 15 years ago and a lot can change. I loved that there was outdoor casual eating and that people could bring their well-behaved dogs to those eateries. I’m an animal lover and kind of a tree-hugger. People on Key West seemed very laid-back, and you’d see the same guy at the same coffee house every morning, sitting and reading the paper sipping his coffee without a care in the world. It seems like the ideal lifestyle.
      I have read that despite what one might expect Key West citizens to be super-liberal, the registered voters there actually are split right down the middle between republican and democrat. That was surprising.

      Also, I’m currently binge-watching the Netflix original show “Bloodline”. It takes place, and was filmed, in one of the keys. I watched an interview with two of the stars. They both said that while the keys are beautiful to look at, there are many “facets” to the culture there that the average person may not know or realize. I wondered what they meant, but I can find nothing about any seedy culture of the keys, and I’ve read blogs and gone to sites like “City-Data”, where I hoped people would be very honest.

      Anyway, I’m sorry to clog up the AZ site begging for FL info. I’m just so wary about ever leaving the stability of the (cold) state that I know and love. The failed move to AZ was a complete disaster that I really think gave me nightmares and a touch of PTSD. It was indeed traumatic being there. I never want to experience anything like that, so I want FULL KNOWLEDGE about FL – even if the possibility of moving there will be 15 years from now.

  114. Melissa Foy says:

    I hate Arizona. I lived here for 9 years. I spent my 40 years in the Chicago area and moved here to Phoenix to be closer to my parents. I’m a nurse and was relocated here by Mayo Clinic who then honestly fired me because I was highly paid as a nurse and have a chronic nerve disease. I was arrested for a DUI, “go figure?”, on the way to work, after honestly hitting a car on the 101, who darted in front of me. The police idiot asked me why I looked so nervous and told him that I was supposed to be at work. Arizona is so messed up. There are illegals and meth addicts all over AZ, and a nurse with a chronic nerve disease gets arrested and loses her job and nursing license who has had no negligence ever as a nurse in the 25 years in my career. I’m so disgusted and want to just move out of this state. This is how AZ makes money. I’m so depressed and just wish God would let me die. Now after I resolve the DUI, because I take meds for chronic pain, I have to go to the AZ nursing board to see if I can even work as a nurse again. I’m so humiliated.

    • BrekanArts says:

      May God Bless you with strength and resolve. This is a horrific story. You sound quite desperate, and I can understand why, considering the assault on your livelihood and civil liberties. Just remember that the system there prays on the insecure. Stay calm, be confident and you’ll settle this successfully and move on.

      I just found out from a friend living in central Phoenix he’s paying the same as rent as most low income people living downtown LA. $1000+ per month for an efficiency apartment. It’s simply not worth it.

      As for you, Melissa, you’re better off restoring your license and moving back to the North Side of Chicago or an affordable suburb. Unless you’re ready to retire, get the hell out of Arizona as fast as possible.

    • Stephen says:

      Before my family left Texas my mother was a teacher in a church. She had a license and did well for herself. When we moved here they wouldn’t take her Texas license and she never really tried to get a license here. Not only did they pay horribly but the administrators weren’t any better themselves. She just stopped caring after a while just like the rest of my family. My father did well but was in marketing for a big computer company so different was in Arizona that much compared to when we lived in Texas. The economy here sucks plain and simple. There might be other places but I’ve only really experienced AZ my whole live. When I can find a job back in Texas I’m leaving and moving home. Hopefully something good comes your way and you can find peace and leave this place.

  115. Carl says:

    My wife andI lived in Old Town Scottsdale the past 9 years and moved back to Ohio a couple of months ago…although I will miss some friends, I will NOT miss the heat.. lack of soul….wannabes….snow birds….. the color beige….crazy drivers….April to October brings hot days with somewhat cooler nights only at the beginning and end of that time period.
    Those dust storms deposit dirt everywhere and humidity is there in July & August…
    I now live near trees & water and really did miss the rain and change of seasons.

  116. Dom says:

    This cesspool was the last state to recognize MLK day. This state should be condemned for all of the above reasons given and it’s people lined up and shot. White, Mexican, Native, Black, you are all a complete abomination. Hands down the most pathetic employers and employees in the galaxy. If they want this Nazi police state shithole let them have it. Fuck you all!!!!

  117. Hey No Arizona! I am still here in the desert making plans to get out, but as someone mentioned before, it’s tough leaving the desert. Not emotionally, economically! One has to be very persistent and keep a positive attitude because it’s easy to feel stuck here. Again, it is not the worst place, but after nearly 20 years I am looking to get back to what was normal for me growing up–seasons! On that note, we are looking hard at NC again.

    • No Arizona says:

      You’re so right, it’s difficult to get out financially! Just look at how isolated you are and how far apart major cities are! If you get in your car and start driving east, it would take you nearly two days to get out of the desert landscape! Hang in there!

  118. brian says:

    dont move to arizona i moved here about 2 years ago for work after i got liaded off i found that i could not get my unempolyment becouse i started working a new job but after 3 week i was told i quit but i dont but they said i did and unempolyment said i cant receive it then if you rent here the laws are not in your faver slum lords and all the laws are all for them and the compenys not for the the people that live and work here as far as des dont think they are going to help you with food and all you are fighting them to as for me as soon as i get my taxs i am out of here time to move out of this shit hole state oh and if you think of moving here good luck geting a way from all the 400,000 homeless that live here as well you cant go out your door with out someone asking for money every cornor they are there .

  119. nickolas says:

    Like the guy above said…….”fuck you all”!Worst scum lives in Arizona lol .Proto Trump experimental state for generations of republican shysters.Best thing about that state is when you see it in a rear view mirror.No culture or class whatsoever.People can’t say hi and turn their heads or their backs pretending they are doing something when you are casually walking in their direction.Walking their ugly poodles and bagging their shit like they are golden nuggets.Their only friends and family.Total social disconnection.Can’t trust anyone or take them up on anything if you payed them.That’s the only time Arizona”denizens” may contact you…when they need something.Fake smiles and absolute corporate, robot like behavior.Young people..hopeless…highest heroin addiction almost anywhere.Nowhere where to go or much to see in Phoenix or Tucson.Any outdoor escape,can’t get by from all the stupid warning signs and fine traps.Shitty,fearfull drivers everywhere and total fear of some the most corrupt cops in the country.You can spend your life driving between Walmarts,Goodwills,Circle KKKs,gas stations and work if you are lucky to have one.And not much else.Night life sucks and clubs are besieged by”sand bagging” cops waiting for a next victim that dared to have a drink in a bar.Anyone seriously contemplating of moving here ought to have their head examined.DON’T DO IT!You’ll regret it for years to come.

  120. Marley says:

    https://polldaddy.com/js/rating/rating.jsMy family and I moved to Phoenix from southern California. I had never been here before we moved and boy was that a mistake. My annoying sister in law who lives in Mesa was so insistent that it wasn’t much different from Cali. I knew I couldn’t trust her! When we left home in October it was a beautiful rainy, foggy, cold day. When we got to Phoenix it was 95 and the mosquitoes started to suckle on me immediately. Our new neighbors asked where we were from and we told them. They were shocked. He actually said why the hell did we move here? I heard the scenery was nice here.. What scenery the rocks and dirt and cactus?. That random ass “hill” 10 miles away? The lack of green around here disturbed me so bad. And I thought Cali was in a severe drought. At least there it was still semi green. And of course as soon as we left home it had the rainiest season in years. How depressing. The “rain” in Phoenix is such a joke.I thought Cali drivers were bad. Nope you get here and people actually drive under the speed limit. Like wah? Doesn’t anyone have somewhere to be? I don’t think anyone uses their signals here either. It’s infuriating. Everytime my brother and sister and law would come visit in Cali they would always comment on the smog. The smog is just as bad here. And I did not expect so many homeless people here either. It took me almost a month to find a decent Mexican restaurant. The others places were like gas station food. I guess I’m not used to the south western Mexican food. Sorry for the long paragraph I just needed to vent. I know a lot of Arizonans are gonna hate my comments and tell me to get back to Cali. And I would love to oblige especially because they legalized recreational marijuana. Don’t judge me everyone has a vice wether it be coffee, energy drinks, cigarettes , booze whatever. I think the people here would be more happy i they could blaze it up every now and then without having to worry about getting a felony. Just my thoughts. I’m off to cost co now to find a tiny “tree” to park under. Thanks for listening to me bitch.

  121. Natasha says:

    https://polldaddy.com/js/rating/rating.jsNickolas; I agree with your post I’m from Southern California but have been living in AZ (not by choice) since 1987 . I hope to be out of here in a couple of years and will never step foot in this state again for any amount of money! It is an impossible state to get out of financially because of the non-existent jobs and if you’re lucky enough to have one it doesn’t pay shit. And I will agree the people here are the WORST .The laws are bullshit and corrupt and half the things that are illegal in this state are NOT crimes in the rest of the United States! This corrupt republican-run police state makes their money by making everyone a criminal . Like they Always say to you in this state (as they laugh) “Come on vacation and leave on probation”. Arizona people in general are dishonest scammers who will only show you civility, general courtesy and manners if you literally put money into their hands. The police force is corrupt and will harass ANYONE at ANYTIME for no reason. They will violate your rights and break the very due process laws that govern THEIR behavior to illegally place as many cases they can against as many people they can with the hopes that most can’t afford to hire attorneys to defend themselves so they have to plea to bullshit cases and things they didn’t do and get locked into paying the state money or go to jail. This is a prison state and their goal is to extort as much money as they can from their citizens with the threat of jail or prison and if you comply and don’t leave the state immediately they’ll get you again it’s a trap and a go-nowhere state. If you weren’t a criminal when you came here , you WILL be when and if you are able to leave. I could go on and on about why this is not the place to live but I could fill a book and would be hard pressed to find anything good about this state. My cheers and props to any all all Arizona haters who successfully made it out of the state congrats to you. Hopefully, I will live to see the day that I finally get to see Arizona from the viewpoint I want to see: the rear view mirror. Fuck this state all to hell .

  122. Ash says:

    https://polldaddy.com/js/rating/rating.jsI’m so glad to have found this website. We moved here a little over 10 years ago and this has been the worst place to live. I hated it pretty much right away but my other half was slow to realize the negatives of this place. It’s funny because when you speak to anyone here about moving they look at you like your from outerspace. The only ones that understand are a few of those I’ve met that moved from places like Chicago, Minnesota, California, NJ, etc. I moved from one of the biggest cities in the country and never felt unsafe nor was a victim of crime, yet living here I’ve had my car broken into, a part cut off my car and stolen, a baby stroller stolen from my car, shoes stolen from outside my front door, my vehicle sticker stolen from my car, a coat and kids toys stolen and I could literally go on. I’m constantly on the alert living here. My spouse saw a guy get gunned down just driving home after grabbing food. It says a lot when Walmart is the number 2 employer in the state. The jobs here are very low paying in general. I know of so many people here affected by layoffs and job loss even in this “recovering” economy. One guy here worked for a large law firm that could barely make payroll and the main attorney was paying him with personal checks right before they let him go. The people here are like nothing I’ve ever seen. They will look right through you and never smile or say a word. Neighbors walk around doing yard work right next door to you and never speak or acknowledge your presence. We’ve lived on our street for several years and only 2 neighbors actually wave. The rest will either stare without a wave or pretend to be doing something so as to avoid having to wave. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve gone to the store and had someone literally reach right past my face or right over me to get something without saying excuse me or practically squashing me trying to squeeze past with a cart and never say I’m sorry. I practically die of shock if anyone bothers holding the door open in a public building. The amount of ignorant, rude people here is staggering. The homeless problem in Phoenix is awful. Panhandlers and beggars are all over the city. We tried to take the kids to a park in central Phoenix recently since it has quite a few trees over the playground area. We literally had to drive off without parking because the homeless were sleeping all over the playground areas. It was shocking and disturbing. The lovely brown cloud hanging over the area in 110+ degree weather is disconcerting. I’m beyond sick of being stuck inside due to a lack of things to do here. It is so boring and having kids makes it 10x worse. We homeschool because the education system is horrendous and yet the state keeps taking tons of money away from schools and teachers. The only teachers the state can get now are either very new (and they soon move away after getting experience) or semi-retired. The pay is too low to retain quality educators. This place lacks any culture or identity. Anytime you want to do cultural/fun things with kids get ready to pay an insane amount of money. The Wildlife World Zoo houses mostly birds and few other animals along with dusty, unpaved walkways and yet charges $39 plus tax PER adult…kids are not much cheaper. Most of the museums are super small yet very pricey to get in. I’m writing all this from experience. I’d do my due diligence and research this place carefully before considering a move. Better yet don’t do it! This is not a state to live in if you fall on hard times. I called the state trying to help a single mom I met with 3 kids who was about to lose her apartment. They told me they had nothing to offer and she could “go to a homeless shelter” which is fine except they are closing most of those up too!! I’m so glad my other half FINALLY came around and is ready to move. Thankfully we work in a field where we can save money fairly quickly to move because this state really will keep you so broke you can’t afford to leave. We are planning to be gone sometime next year. I can’t wait to get out of this nightmare–and see water, green grass, and trees– so my family and I can enjoy a real quality of life!

    • Justin says:

      https://polldaddy.com/js/rating/rating.jsOmg I couldnt have said it any better myself…..my girlfriend loathes and despises this place…..the father of her son is a complere deadbeat and doesnt pay court ordered child support yet CPS harasses HER…….this state is quite scary actually…..its a weird twisted demented place with nasty very ODD people…..its a very corrupt place that has lots of shady businesses in the private as well as governmental agencies. They generate lots of revenue thu the courts and jails. Its a total police right to work state that pays low wages with mostly service or manufacturing dead end jobs. I went to the court office and the girl was just nasty as ever it was just sick….I wanted to jump over the counter and rip her head off. The states education system ovetalrall bottom of the barrel oh yea. And this heat dont even get me started…..our ac ran so hard in the heatwave it pooped right out…..needed a new capacitor. Yea this place is a hell hole no doubt you have to keep busy and have hobbies in order to maintain your sanity and to pass time. Not much to do here and yes everything is really expensive yet its suppose to be family friendly lol!! Now thats a good laugh for sure……the zoos Legoland Odysea etc all so damned expensive its nuts. One could go on and on sheeesh. Was at Walmart yesterday and had to cuss out some old hag for trying to get smart and tell my gf to move her stuff up on the belt……a typical experience here haha!

      • Ash says:

        Most of the things to do out here involve expensive admission fees and are not nearly worth what it costs to get in. AZ businesses take advantage of the lack of things to do especially indoor activities during summer, by charging outrageous prices. For a family of 4 to go to the Desert Botanical gardens it would be at least $75! Keep in mind this is to see a bunch of cacti and desert plants you see for free and in abundance driving around town. Further how do families afford these things with the horrible pay? I looked around online at various cities of all sizes and they charge waaaay less for museums, zoos, and other cultural activities and often they are twice the size of the stuff in AZ!

        We have committed to saving every dime over the next few months to get out of here. We’ve homeschooled to keep our kids out of the school system here and thankfully they are working 1-2 grade levels ahead. This is no place to raise kids. So many times we come from someplace and my young kids remark about how rudely kids and even adults behaved. I’m tired of trying to make excuses for buffoonish behavior. I don’t want my kids growing up in a place like this. Working on a few projects on the house now to get it ready to put up for sale. I’m so over this place I literally could leave tomorrow with a small bag of things and never look back.

        Had a roofer tell me today that the environment here is one of the most hostile even more than areas that have high humidity, hurricanes, and tornadoes. He said the sun “eats” up everything. I can believe it. Very little greenery grows here, outdoor furniture, toys, shoes–anything left out in the elements here will literally disintegrate. It makes me physically ill to imagine being here through another summer. I’m done here. This place is so dreadful. We have so many bad memories and I’m so glad my husband is no longer wishing to “wait it out” and hope things get better here because they won’t. I’ll stop here. I could honestly write a book on the things I’ve experienced here. I hope to never come across any place like this in my life ever again.

    • No Arizona says:

      Good for you, and well said! I’ve experienced many of your observations, which led me to leave.

    • Justin says:

      Yes Ash I hear ya so true…..this environment is brutal and it dont take prisoners! Walked outside the other day and my car rearview mirror was dangling down…..come to find out it was so damn hot that it melted the epoxy off the connector and the thing just dropped so had to buy new epoxy and attach it back on…..unreal. Mark my words this place will be 130 degrees one day just watch. People will be dropping like flies and acs will be conking out in multitude yep just watch…..I sure hope in hell Im not here when it happens either. MY gf and I took her son to Coronado San Diego and omg that was soooo nice I cant even tell you….the people minded their own business and that air and ocean was so refreshing…….driving thru those green rolling hills of Cali was so relaxing wow…….Im gonna do some research on San Diego sounds like a lot of people love it there. I know its expensive and all but life couldnt be any worse than here I dont think. Hell I could live in a tent on that beach and be just fine. I was so grumpy and depressed having to drive back to AZ and enter back into this nitemarish twilite zone of hell……an abyss of misery and isolation……a pit of ghouls goblins and munsters this AZ is……..I have to read these blog entries every once in a while just for a little consolation and to know its not just me……I had my gf read your entry and others so that she can feel maybe a tad better. She thought it was just her and I told her NO, it isnt! Thank goodness your hubby has finally come around and seen the light! Now you guys can plan your exodus out hells playpen.

      • Ash says:

        Justin I cracked up reading your post! My hubby and I both describe some of the drugged out looking people we see regularly here as ghouls and goblins LOL. We were literally talking about how hot this place may get in the future just this morning. As I said, we’ve been here just over 10 years and have seen a dramatic difference in the weather. When we first moved here it used to get extremely hot around June and it lasted until early Sept. By early Sept the humidity was not a factor and daytime highs would start trending down into 90s, even sometimes into the upper 80s. By no later than the second week into October the weather was beautiful with temps in the 70s/80s!

        For the past few years we’ve seen the entire months of Sept/Oct stay well in the 100/105+ range. Last year it literally did not cool down until the first or even second week of November. The winters are getting milder almost springlike and the summers are longer and hotter. I’m not going to stay here to witness this any longer. I’m sure your trip to SD was refreshing! Seeing the ocean and being able to ride with the window down for a change. We went last year and took the kids to a playground and it was so nice to see a playground full of kids actually playing together. We chatted with some of the parents and my hubby and a granddad there with his granddtr took turns spinning a merry-go-round full of kids who were just having a blast. I remembered what “normal” felt like.

        It is expensive there but after you count all the nickels & dimes AZ snatches from our pockets daily, it might actually not be a huge difference after all. I tell my husband all the time that life is too short to waste in an armpit like this. It is not cheap living here. The multiple taxes on foods, goods, and services is plain robbery. Our kids who were born here hate it here and beg us all the time to move. I’m glad as well that my husband sees what a disgusting place this is and is fed up enough to want to get out of here too. Like you I come here often to find the “sane ones” who know what’s up. Living here can feel like living in an asylum where everyone/thing around you causes you to question your own sanity and normalcy. We spent so long wondering is it just us? Clearly it wasn’t. I hope you can get away from here soon too! We’re just waiting on a city that we like to open up so my husband can transfer and we’ll need to sell our house . I’m an RN so I can get a job pretty easily most anywhere thankfully. We hope and pray we don’t have to go through another summer here.

      • BrekanArts says:

        I’ve been living in Pasadena for three years now and everytime I go back I ask myself. What took you so long? Stockholm Syndrome. I began to become Arizona myself. I even took up “dry panning” for gold in desert washes and embraced the bigoted popular opinions and policies.

        Being an Arizonan is as bad as alcoholism and addiction (and can lead to it quickly if you are susceptible). When you make a vacation in the desert your permanent lifestyle you’re bound to live in misery at some crappy semi-retired day job.

        My name is BrekanArts and I’m a recovering Zonie. lol You can get out.

        There should be “twelve steps” for Zonies. I’m not kidding. There’s no realistic way that state will continue to sustain the 5 million plus people living there. It’s beyond logic and reason and truly and environmental disaster.

        Phoenix will be the first “ghost-metropolis” someday. Can you imagine those war-torn badlands when they unfold?

      • No Arizona says:

        Very nice write up! Thanks for commenting, and glad to hear that you got out!

    • Marley says:

      I’m homeschooling my kids too. It’s so miserable being stuck inside all day. My four year old was crying the other day because he wanted to go outside and it broke my heart to tell him yet again that we can’t because it’s too hot and he gets nose bleed in the heat. That’s awesome you are getting out. I hope you find a nice place far far away. You’re right about the quality of life. Ever since we moved here I’ve been so depressed. My husband and I don’t have time for each other anymore he’s trying to work as much as possible to pay our bills. Our electric bill was $450 this month.

      • BrekanArts says:

        I completely understand. People think “Wow my mortgage will be only $1100 per month on that 3500 sq ft. lofted ceiling house!!” No one considers the expense of cooling 40,000 cubic feet! They are not factoring $400-600 electric bills. $250-500 gasoline expense (for the god-awful commuting distances). 50-150 per month in pool maintenance. Its the same cost as Los Angeles. Just a different vibe.

      • Ash says:

        Marley it’s great that you also homeschool your kids. I can completely relate to that miserable feeling of being stuck inside all day. It’s hard seeing the disappointment on my kids faces day after day being told we can’t go out because it’s dangerously hot. It’s very depressing feeling disconnected and cut off from your community or even from society at-large. Now that we’re making plans to get out, it’s easier to save because I keep telling myself that certain purchases can extend our time here. The electric bills are outrageous and it’s easy to have huge chunks of income going towards that for several months. Can you talk to your husband about how you feel living here? Hang in there and try to stay positive. At least this summer hasn’t been the worst and we’re closer to the end of summer.

  123. BrekanArts says:

    “It is expensive there but after you count all the nickels & dimes AZ snatches from our pockets daily, it might actually not be a huge difference after all.”

    TRUTH. I did the math and found that even if I was to get the same Art Director position in Phoenix (at one of two ad agencies that monopolize the papers, billboards and TV stations there), I could not afford to move back! The rents have skyrocketed. Water and electric bills are OUTRAGEOUS! I went through my expenses and realized with gasoline (to commute the ungodly distances between “local” destinations), the electric bill for cooling nine months of the year and water, I will pay MORE than I do to live and work in Psadena (11 miles n/e of downtown LosAngeles. )

    I’m about to go surfing now, but no longer am I relegated to that lame excuse of of a water park Big Surf to get my stoke.

    The best view of Arizona is the view from a rearview mirror. 😉

    • Ash says:

      BrekanArts I agree with you fully! I can’t wait to see the literal or figurative You Are Now Leaving Arizona sign myself. The cost of living here is definitely not aligned with the pay. Everyday I envision living on a street lined with mature trees and green grass and in an area with some form of water (ocean, lake, rivers, etc.). It takes a real plan and determination to get out. We’ve named our strategy Operation Relocation lol. We are on a real mission to exit this dismal place.

      • No Arizona says:

        Best of luck to you! I live among the trees and it is raining outside right now! After it clears up, I will be boating on a beautiful, tree-lined lake. Moving out of the desert was one of the best destinations I’ve ever made!

      • BrekanArts says:

        Well I’ve been in Pasadena for 3 years now and every year I chuckle when the locals complain it’s 15 degrees “hotter” (90 degrees) than the beach (75 degrees). I think. You have no idea how 30 degrees HOTTER feels! But it’s a “dry heat.” Right?!

        I love my folks and am happy they are in retirement paradise. But this working man needs a working environment with living wages. The nice weather is a bonus. 😀

        Thanks for making this site. It really helped me realize I wasn’t mentally ill and making this crap up. Some environments really are beyond tolerable.

  124. Ash says:

    No Arizona don’t rub it in hahaha! Thanks for the well wishes. That sounds amazing. Today it’s 108 and by Friday it’s going up to 116 and of course the humidity is rising to add injury to insult. I love reading the success stories of those who moved away and I can see myself writing my post-desert story one day soon.

    • Ren says:

      Ash, no joke, it sounds like you and I are on the same ‘burn it down’ trajectory. We’re giving it this fiscal year, but it’s agreed that the kid is starting next school year somewhere else. Everything you, and everyone here, describes– the malaise, depression, anxiety– I feel completely validated that I’m not the only one! I know it’s not the ‘Arizona Way’ (i.e. standoffish and antisocial), but reply if you want to get together and compare notes, I could use a friend to share a glass of wine and complain about our last days and plan optimistic escape plans with!

      • Ash says:

        Hi Ren. It’s a good feeling to finally realize it’s not just you isn’t it?! I’m really looking forward to putting this episode of my life behind me soon. I don’t have a lot of downtime between work and homeschool (school year is starting up for us in a few days) but we can chat for sure. :))

  125. Tracy Parente says:

    Send me plenty of info!!! I love this blog!!! Moved here from florida

    .my husband is a native to phoenix😰😰😰😰 I been here 3 yrs 3months and 24 days!!!!

    • BrekanArts says:

      It’s an abusive environment that elicits and fosters abusive behavior. You need to make a stand for your own mental health. If you can’t groove there, it can really drag you down.

  126. L says:

    Sorry to say that Sedona’s surrounding area is loaded with massive heroine, crazed out drivers and very bad things. Irs NOT just Phoenix. I feel extremely unsafe here and i live near the beautiful red rocks. Cottonwood, Camp Verde and surrounding tiwns have a horrible epidemic of horendous suicidal and maniacal homicidal drivers.Take for instance 2 years back, a guy shoots himself in the head in Sedona and wiped out a whole family in an instance. Another woman drove off a cliff near a casino. Drugs everywhere. Meanest drivers I’ve ever seen. Yes Phoenix is messed up but so is the rest of this pkace. There is massive halfway houses around Prescott too trying to help all those in our area on drugs…

    • L says:

      Also this werk i believe another person jumped off the bridge in Sedona again Also horrific accidents here, today yet another. Yesterday on 88a, almost getting into Sedona i saw a mangled bike, the news said she fell off her bike, but the bike was bent in half. Dont understand the physics if it unless a car either hit her, or hit the buke after she fell Either way people either drive 2mph ordrive way over the speed limit. Tail Gating is the norm in this state . I’ve lived in Boston and some big cities and haven’t seen so much bad driving My friend who just moved to New York, she has been in law enforcement fir years, well last winter there was like nearly 50 accidents in 2 days in Flagstaff, all because everyone tailgates…People are mean drivers. I worry for the children in xars that race like demons

      • L says:

        Sorry typos from my phone. Small keyboard…i meant 89a..the 50 accidents were due to the snow…luckily they were mostly fender benders but because people bully drive here, they leave no space between them and the car in front..Then in good weathet, they bully drive by tail-gating till someone with their child has to pull over to let them by so they dont get killed. God forbid an animal runs out in front if you with one of these crazies behind you. Young and old are driving like this. Lots of suicide in this state as well. We are 2nd in the country for pedestrian hits, 2nd to Florida..Its serious..

  127. Ash says:

    A few additional interesting tidbits to leave here for the benefit of anyone thinking of moving here: APS just approved a rate hike this week, I believe $4-6 monthly, that started yesterday—just days after the approved increase. I’ve been reading posts on the Nextdoor app from people in the neighborhood and many are concerned. Apparently with this change, APS is also restructuring their usage plans and everyone will need to choose on of the new plans I guess by May 2018. These plans will charge higher rates for on demand usage. The posts I’ve read have mentioned the possibility of a 20% increase in APS bills!

    Many of the neighbors posted on this app are living like prisoners during the extended summers here with some keeping the thermostat on 84 all day, keeping blinds/curtains closed, unplugging electronics, and sadly some are afraid to turn on the television, wash clothes, or cook during normal waking hours because their bills have been running $300-$600 already and this is before this increase takes effect. If you’ve dealt with APS or SRP here you know they cut you no slack. If you don’t pay the bill in full it snowballs quickly and they will shut your power off in the dead of summer here with no regard that it’s 118+.

    Another thing is the increasing brazen uptick in crimes in the “safer” areas. A lady posted that she was home with her sick kid and she saw two men with handkerchiefs up to their eyes peering through her windows and back French doors. She wrote that she grabbed her kid and got 911 on the phone. She decided to get in her car and try to get away but when she opened the garage the getaway driver, a young female sitting in the SUV with all 4 doors open, starts honking for her accomplices to come out. The homeowner says two guys ran out her side gate and pointed a gun at her and her son and pulled the trigger. She said she heard the click so the gun either was unloaded or jammed. The group then took off in the SUV. Apparently their were helicopters and a bunch of police activity in the area. The local elementary was not even put on lockdown during this because the victim called the school to ask and they hadn’t even been told what was going on.

    HA! As I type this, just got an alert from the app that someone in the subdivision posted. This person says someone stole huge planters off their porch last night and dumped the potting soil on the neighbors driveway. It’s scary to see the cookie cutter well-manicured homes with no people on the street, but to read of all these bizarre criminal incidents. APS is about to have their way with many customer’s bank accounts and the criminal element will yank away what’s left I guess. We are ramping up our efforts to get out of Arizona. I do NOT plan to be here next summer and allow APS to methodically take thousands from us over the endless summer and I don’t want to stick around this statistically “safe” area and read of increasingly alarming incidents or worse yet become a victim.

    • Marley says:

      Thank you so much for this information ash. My husband hates it here just as much as me now. So we are praying we get out in two months. When we first moved into our home someone broke into our neighbors car and tried to break into ours. Im going to show my husband your post later about srp. I’m sure that will put the nail in the coffin. If we stay here it will definitely be a huge burden. Plus it just plain sucks for 9 months. Hope you make it out soon.

      • Ash says:

        You’re welcome Marley. The car break ins and attempted break ins are extremely common all over the valley it seems. I’m not sure if SRP will have an increase soon or if they already had one recently but the one for APS is certainly concerning. I remember you posting how miserable you’ve been here and how high your electric bills have been during the summer. I really hope you and your family can get out soon and get someplace where you can enjoy a better quality of life. We are already collecting boxes and cleaning out closets. We’re looking at every step as forward progress to make it out of here.

  128. There is a reason the north is on top of you. says:

    So reading some of these comments makes me realize the issue is just that people have a hard time letting go.

    i live someplace I consider bland and lifeless. Everyone else around here acts like it is heaven. Now for me the reason I like it is that we actually have seasons here. I like rain, I like sun, I like snow and blowing cold.

    I also like clean water, less overt racism since lets fucking get real, racism is an illusion propagated at this point by our leaders to keep us fighting and make it easier to rule and pass bad legislation and have no one deeply challenge their ability to lead in all seriousness.

    I have been to phoenix a few times. I really hope never to return.

    There are similar issues everywhere but the worst in that area seem to be much worse than other places like this.

    I grew up around lakes and landscape not flat sandboxes so it might just be environmental difference.

    Some of the things said here are totally absurd.

    You could all move north to someplace where the worst disasters are being snowed in for a day or two. Someplace the land renews itself yearly and smells like something not just dust. Someplace you could swim and drink the water a little and it wasn’t put there by men.

    I would prefer you all just stay down there and leave the good stuff to those of us who think being the capitol of entry level jobs is like getting gold star in kindergarten.

  129. eff asu says:

    Mediocre jobs, terrible pay, rude people, druggies and junkies walking around like zombies, terrible air quality, low quality universities (I’m a graduate of ASU… no sun devil pride here.) I moved away years ago. Tried to love back and lasted 3mos before I was laid off and moved away again.

  130. Soexcitedcanthideit says:

    Hello everyone!! I escaped going on 3 years now….its been a little bumpy here and there but I am SO HAPPY TO BE OUT OF THAT STATE… Moving to AZ in 2004 was our biggest mistake. We are definitely prospering in our lives since moving. My uncle still lives there I told him sell and move back. He looked at me like he was trapped. Poor guy…. To the people that think they can never move….. Believe me I had no money but we saved enough for a uhaul and storage and stayed with family for one month… Now it’s all history….

    • Ash says:

      Thanks for coming back with positive words of encouragement for those of us considering or planning to move from this place! It takes determination to get out but it can be done. Sometimes it feels like this state is an abyss that constantly sucks you in deeper. As we’re in the process of packing and getting ready to sell our home your words came at the right time! I’m so happy your move was a good one and hope the same for us.

    • hikeaz2016 says:

      Where did you move to?

  131. Bernie says:

    https://polldaddy.com/js/rating/rating.jsI moved to the Phoenix area in 1984. Back then there was open land between Phoenix and Mesa/Scottsdale. Now it’s a huge city and all freeway and housing. Moved to Sierra Vista in the Southeast corner of Arizona. Population of 42,000. It’s like night and day. Pleasant summers and mild winters. Elevation of 5000ft. Grassland and mesquite with gorgeous mountains. The problem in small cities most everywhere is jobs. But, if you’re retired, it’s probably one of the best places in America to live.

  132. Beth says:

    I made the mistake of moving here in 2006 and here it is 2018 and quite frankly I feel like I am trapped in this hell hole. I grew up in a small north east Texas town then spent a few years in Dallas before making the dreadful decision to move to Phoenix. It has definitely been a culture shock moving here and still is, in some ways. Driving out here, we passed through beautiful scenery but as soon as we arrived in the valley I was discouraged to see just ugly, hazy tan everywhere. This I would soon learn is the “sprawl”. I then came to the realization that there is practically zero southern hospitality here..and growing up in an area that is thick with southern hospitality, it was a depressing shock. There are a lot of really rude, mean people out here. Zero manners or common curtesy. Zero respect for the law, the land, property, animals, or other people. Since moving out here my depression has only grown worse. It feels like I’m living in hell, surrounded by heartless people. When I used to take my morning walks (before discovering it is not that safe to do so) I would smile and say good morning to everyone I passed. Half or more of those people would just ignore me and walk on by. The heat here is unbearable but I’ve learned to live with it as well as the huge electric bill that comes with it. But when fall comes, I enjoy opening the windows to get fresh air…but I can’t even do that because of the pollution/air quality or the noise. Every winter I keep expecting it to get cold, and it never really does. At least not the cold I grew up with. I’ll still be running the a/c during December. The longer I live here the more I hate everything about Phoenix. Money and my husbands job is holding us here. We can’t even afford to move into a different apartment since the apartment rates have pretty much increased 33% in just over a year. Pretty soon the prices are going to I be comparable to California…which is kind of crazy. It seems like every time I find some little piece of happiness here, something comes along and rips it away or craps all over it. All in all, moving out here has been the biggest mistake of my life and I deeply regret it. It’s a shithole here and I’m drowning in it.

    • Ash says:

      Beth your experience sounds like so many here, and I definitely can relate to much of what you wrote. There is no hospitality here, as most of the people are rude or even hostile. I’ve never seen so many angry people everywhere. We’ve seen an uptick in thefts and property damage where we live. Someone did damage to my home and several others in the neighborhood to the point law enforcement has to be involved. I no longer feel safe walking around my area either. It’s sad that the “cool” weather has had some of the worst air pollution days in the past decade in AZ according to the media. The thick haze looks like a blanket of fog except it is hazardous to your health. We’d love to open the windows to cool the house down because it’s been close to 80 degrees during winter but the polluted air makes it impossible.

      I hope you don’t resign yourself to living in this pit. Feelings of depression and regret can make you feel powerless. I personally said life is to short to be this unhappy living in a place like this. We’re determined to get out for our well being and to have a quality of life that we haven’t had since moving here. My husband saw yet another murder scene on the way to work. He’s seen so many here it’s nothing new sadly. We woke up so excited for 2018 because this is the year we leave AZ for good. I hope you and your husband can find a way out of here and settle in where you can be happier.

    • hikeaz2016 says:

      Hey Beth I’m sorry to hear how unhappy you are. I remember being in a similar state of mind a year ago and it was miserable. I was not my jovial, happy-go-lucky self because I wanted so desperately to leave Arizona. However, due to finances and jobs, leaving was not an option so I felt “stuck”. As I have stated in previous posts I had to change my mindset if I was going to cope with living here.
      After I did that I began to see some of the more positive aspects of Arizona. My wife and I got out and explored the state and were surprised by what we found; cool little towns, beautiful hikes and interesting people. Did it change my mind about living here? No. But it did help me learn to take a drive when that overwhelming feeling of wanting to move popped up. We took/take small trips to change things up. While I still plan to eventually move, I no longer feel depressed, overwhelmed or stuck. I know it will happen one day soon and am enjoying the process as we explore our next location. One thing for me is that I will be leaving with a better opinion of Arizona than I had when we moved here. Keep your head up, things will turn around for you. In the meantime, enjoy your life!

      • Ash says:

        Hi hikeaz2016. I’d rather not say where on a public forum but it’ll be cross country. We are looking to leave by May at the latest if this job transfer goes the way we hope. We started planning our exit, in earnest, around August of last year. That was good advice you gave about changing your thinking when you can’t change your location. This has been a very difficult week for us with here as we’ve had to call the Sherriff twice (and may need to call a third time as my security cam just caught a man walking up to my front door recording with his phone) and I’ve been fighting literally everyday to drown out negative thoughts about living here. Best case scenario is my husband’s able to transfer sooner and we leave by early March. I will say I’ve worked on personal improvements so that I can leave any toxic feelings and emotions behind me when I move and go forward with optimism.

  133. R says:

    Hi everybody. After reading numerous posts here I wanted to write something that may help anyone wanting to leave AZ. My wife and I moved to the Phoenix area in 1984, We had grandparents on both sides living there and my parents had just moved down there from the northwest. We went to college there, made some friends, got our first jobs, and toured much of the state. There were many positives for us at that time. AZ is a great state if people will get out and see it. There are some really amazing places. It was a great change from the rain and for a while things went pretty well. As time went on the valley started to wear on me and I noticed how indifferent some people were to a quality living environment that just doesn’t exist in Phoenix or Scottsdale. I would mention lakes, rivers, the ocean and mountains and got blank stares. I would talk about the heat and so many just didn’t get it. The brown tasteless atmosphere combined with not much local activity unless someone is a big time golfer started to take its toll. Outdoor rec is at a minimum there. Our run ins with people got worse and worse. My car was broken into twice. Eventually I was physically assaulted and the police did nothing. Also my wife and I got tired of the long distance trips around the valley and the dangerous drivers. Eventually our best friends left and I never felt so alone. We knew we needed to leave and after 14 years moved to a different part of the northwest from where we grew up and just love it. I don’t think I want to say exactly where but trust me it is great. Our Arizona problems are history and we enjoy outdoor recreation with four seasons. We have a nice considerate community and the air is clean. I have no real regrets about our move which happened years ago. There is winter cold and some snow but not too bad. We are less than an hour from skiing. People will go the extra mile to help others here and we never had that in AZ. So-our move was perfect for us and to those who feel stuck there I say plan your exit and don’t give up hope.

  134. Ash says:


    It was one of the fiercest battles we’ve ever fought but thankfully we did it! We got the house sold in under a month, and got out of dodge. The final 8 weeks there were absolutely brutal! It felt like every force was working against us to hold us there. We felt like we were in quicksand and couldn’t get out fast enough or even at all.

    If I can save even one person from making a bad decision by moving to Arizona, I’ll be very happy. Arizona is not bad for everyone but I’d HIGHLY recommend anyone considering a move there to do a LOT of research before setting foot in the state. For us personally, living in Arizona was such a horrible experience it almost didn’t feel real. The “culture” (if you want to call it that) of that place is definitely not normal. The people in general are some of the worst, most vile I have ever seen. People are so shallow and fake you learn quickly you cannot trust anyone. Sadly, it seems a great majority are nice only when they need something or stand to gain an advantage of some sort.

    Here are some statistics I’ve gathered on Arizona in comparison to other states: 47th in K-12 education; 3rd worst for child hunger; 8th highest for suicide; 8th highest for drug use/abuse; 14th most dangerous for driving; 1st in pedestrian deaths; 2nd deadliest for police pursuits; I-17 is the 4th most deadliest highway in the US; 2nd worst for distracted drivers; 9th highest in US for sales tax; 8th highest poverty rate in US; 44th out of 50 best places to live and; 11th most stressed out state. Sounds like a dreamy place to live right?

    What I’ll miss about Arizona: The beautiful sunsets. What I will not miss: Rude, hostile, bitter, shallow, fake people; extreme heat that starts in April/May and now goes through Oct/late Nov; cutthroat power companies that suck the money from your wallet as they look for every way to make a profit off the need for air conditioning in such an extreme place; employers and co-workers who treat you like dispensable garbage; HOAs that are fanatical about controlling homeowners in every way possible; dangerous, disgusting drivers; spending 8+ months indoors due to the heat; being bored and having a bunch of bored kids who can’t spend summer outdoors like normal; subpar scenery, food, entertainment, museums, etc.

    I can’t believe how clean the air is where we live now. The scenery is absolutely gorgeous, with no two streets looking the same. Every drive I get to see an abundance of trees, thick green grass, and water in the form of creeks, rivers, ponds. I can drive a couple hours and enjoy the beach. The people smile, wave, offer help, greet you and ask how your day is going—I get held up in conversation several times a day with random strangers. The weather is amazing, allowing us to enjoy the outdoors with our kids. My kids are soooo much happier, and they’ve noticed all the differences of living here. They said they never want to go back to Arizona. And I agree.

    Life is too short to waste in a cesspool that drains the joy out of every day. This website was a HUGE help and relief to me. I found it when I was at my wits end feeling like something was wrong with me, when it was the surroundings and the people I was forced to interact with. This website gave me the validation I needed, in knowing something was very wrong with Arizona because too many others have gone through the same things. I knew it was time to do something besides wallow in all the negative feelings I had living there. The farther I got from AZ, the lighter I felt, as if someone took a huge mountain off my shoulders. I’m soooo happy now. I’m feeling normal again, and I can really see now that life in AZ for us was grossly abnormal. Never, ever want to set foot in that place again.

    • hikeaz2016 says:

      Ash, happy to hear about your move! Thanks for the update as it provides encouragement to those still looking to relocate. While I have been fortunate to have gotten to know some wonderful people here over the years and absolutely enjoy exploring different parts of the state, I’m still missing that sense of normalcy you mentioned. I still struggle with feeling like this is “home” even after nearly 20 years!
      I will put the onus on myself and not so much on AZ.

      I won’t outright bash the place because I have learned to appreciate certain aspects like low humidity, mild winters and the lovely scenery around the state (not Phoenix!). However, I also can’t ignore the feeling I get everytime we have to return after vacation…I wish we could stay where we were. For years I fought to make myself like living here enough to call it my forever home. I sought to find every positive thing about the state (there are many) but my soul, my heart, never could settle. Others have already stated many of the challenges of living here so I won’t repeat them. I will say to those looking to move here it helps to not compare it (AZ) to wherever you are coming from. This is a desert, no matter how urban they try to make it, for better or worse. I have many friends who are thriving here in spite of the low pay in many industries. One thing newcomers should be aware of is that cheaper (housing, COL,etc.) does not necessarily mean a better QOL! Housing prices are rising rapidly and that, coupled with mediocre salaries in this Right-to-Work state, makes it a bit more challenging.

      • Ash says:

        Thank you hikeaz2016. It’s nice to see that you’ve found a silver lining to living in Arizona. Arizona is not ALL bad, nor are all the people there. As I mentioned for our family is was a horrible experience and no matter what we did to try to find a reason to stay and to be positive and happy about living there, it didn’t work out for us. Our quality of life went down tremendously living there. We explored many areas of the state and can appreciate the natural beauty in many places, but as you said the sense of normalcy is lacking.

        I agree with what you said about cheaper living not being equal to quality of living. All in all we didn’t necessarily find it to be that much cheaper living in Arizona, and often times you get what you pay for—there’s likely a reason it’s so cheap. Our perspective was certainly influenced by the fact that we didn’t find Arizona a good place to raise our children. Many of the young people we encountered were vapid and unable to hold a basic conversation. We can all agree the education system there ranks near the bottom in the US. We had to look at all the pieces, and there just weren’t any compelling factors for us to remain there and continue to experience a decline in our overall happiness and quality of life.

      • hikeaz2016 says:

        Ash, I completely understand where you are coming from. In fact, I tried to move my family twice when our children were younger because of the educational system. As much as the state acts like it values education the fact that it spends twice as much on inmates opposed to students is very telling. Are you now in the east? Grew up back east and find myself missing it terribly in the fall.

      • Ash says:

        You’re right hikeaz2016 in that K-12 education is not a priority in Arizona. It’s sad because education is an investment in children and society as a whole. We are back east, enjoying a sunny 72 degree day today. I felt the same way about fall! That’s my favorite time seeing vivid colors and the crisp, cool air. I can’t wait to enjoy that again this year—we have a list of scenic drives to take.

      • hikeaz2016 says:

        Hey Ash, is there any way you can share pics of your scenic drives?

      • Ash says:

        I’d love to share pictures. Not sure if I can do so on this site or not.

      • No Arizona says:

        That’s a good question. I’ll see if there’s a plug-in that will allow photo comments.

  135. hikeaz2016 says:

    On second thought, seeing pics of green forests with flowing creeks, lakes and streams could either be inspiring or painful!😊

    • Ash says:

      😄 It can be either inspiring or a slow form of torture depending on the day and/or the weather. I’ll tell you what—I spend a lot of time just standing and listening to the soft bubbling of flowing creeks and it’s like a shot of endorphins. My daughter has found a favorite spot near one already where she wants to sit and enjoy reading and journaling.

      • hikeaz2016 says:

        Alright Ash, NoArizona, I’m in need of a little encouragement! Got hit with a serious case of wanting to leave AZ recently. I was able to get out into the wilderness by the Salt River, which helped. (I love the wilderness and it is my drug of choice.) However, summer is not even here and I’m already experiencing this!😯 I gotta get a grip.

      • No Arizona says:

        If you love wilderness, you’d love living in a normal place. Arizona treats any wooded land like beachfront property! Your drug of choice (the wilderness) can be your every day life. Find out what’s keeping you there, then form a plan to overcome it.

      • hikeaz2016 says:

        No Arizona, you and Ash have made it out of the matrix so I value your opinions, especially when you speak of things being “normal”. I’m fighting to remember what that feels like?! I think I have identified my biggest hurdle to leaving and have to get a plan to change that. Tried a couple of plans before that failed.

      • Ash says:

        Well said No Arizona. I’m finding each day how life is in a “normal place” and at the same time I’m more keenly aware of how grossly abnormal several things are in the Valley specifically. Hikeaz2016, listen to your gut and intuition, perhaps that whisper that it’s time for a change, is becoming more of a soft roar.

      • hikeaz2016 says:

        Well put Ash, the whisper is getting louder and louder. Again, I don’t hate AZ, but, as much as I’ve tried over the past 20 years, it does not feel like home. The idea of picking up and starting over is a two-edged sword for me; it’s a daunting thought because Arizona is familiar, yet it (the thought of moving) never goes away.

      • Ash says:

        Hikeaz2016 the entire 10+ years I lived there I felt like I didn’t belong, like a fish out of water. It never felt like home to us—ever. There’s an umistakeable feeling of belonging when you know you’re in the right place. We felt that within days of landing in our new state. I spent so much of my time in AZ feeling like there was a way better life for us somewhere out there. We were willing to pull up stakes and take the risk. I dreaded the thought of starting over, and honestly, that’s what paralyzed my husband into staying for as long as we did in a way. We hit a wall and couldn’t ignore the nagging feeling that it was time to go…sounds like you’re getting there too. Make a plan and stick to it so you can find your “normal” again!

      • hikeaz2016 says:

        Ash, I appreciate your honest, sincere responses. It really does help to relate to those who understand what it’s like. We have made good friends here over the years. The thought of leaving them is not pleasant, but the difference is…they’re home. They are settled and not looking to go anywhere.

        I was like that when we lived in Charlotte prior to moving to Phoenix for a job. If I knew then what I know now I probably would not have moved, but, as they say, hindsight is 20/20.

        Good thing is, my wife is open to moving if it is the right situation. Although she also doesn’t hate Arizona, she agrees that our life here is not normal.

    • Ash says:

      No worries hikeaz2016, I’m happy to offer a different perspective. It’s always tough emotionally leaving people we cherish behind in a move. I like to reason that had I not moved to that particular location, we would have possibly never crossed paths. So, too, with a new move. You get the chance to ideally meet new people and make new friends. Long distance is not a challenge to true friendships anyway. I have a few friends that I met in Arizona, and we have already scheduled meet ups this summer & fall.

      I recently said the same thing—that had I known what I know now, I would never have moved to Arizona. Hindsight is always that slap in the face isn’t it? Nothing to do now but move forward wiser for the wear. You don’t have to be at the point of hating a place to move. It’s perfectly fine to leave for whatever you deem reasonable and right. Your wife’s willingness to consider leaving is a good springboard. Explore your options, but don’t settle for staying in a place that is wrong for you because it’s the safe choice. Regret is an awful thing to live with.

  136. Soexcitedcanthideit says:

    3 years later after our escape…..there were struggles to move but so worth it. I always think how the hell did we live in AZ for 12 years. we moved back on time I got to hang out with my uncle (which was my dads bff) in 2015 he passed away from brain cancer 2017. The timing was meant to be. Anyone reading this that feels hopeless about moving. It will happen for you do not give up. You just have to become headstrong. Thank you to creator of this page.. I love reading what I wrote three years ago on here. I can’t believe it’s been that long

  137. hikeaz2016 says:

    No activity on this thread in a few months?

  138. ren says:

    Hey guys, I’ll add some activity! Proud escapees, July 2018. Faced a lot of challenges to pick up and relocate, but are settling in nicely back in our familiar area- near family and friends. The ability to wake up and look out my back door into a green wooded (well, snow covered as of lately) expanse rather than the cinder blocked jail exercise yard my old yard resembled is completely worth it.

    We’ve gotten a lot of strange responses when we’ve told people that we tried Arizona for a few years and it just wasn’t for us (again, we now live in a place where strangers strike up casual conversation in public and are generally pleasant!). I was surprised to hear how many people knew someone who experienced something similar- moved to Arizona with this ‘so long, suckers!’ mentality, but after living there and realizing it’s not it’s all cracked up to be returned 5, 10, 20 years later.

    Where we are is by no means perfect. But the pride people take in belonging to this community and the effort they put in to make it a nice place to live is something I really missed while living in the Valley. It’s a value that I took for granted and was uniquely absent during my time in AZ. Wishing you all a successful thaw- like I told someone over the phone at Maricopa County last week while tying up loose ends and, upon learning my forwarding address asked how I was coping with the cold— we EARN our summers.

    • hikeaz2016 says:

      ren, glad to hear your family was able to relocate. I am still contemplating what it would feel like to move out of the desert. My problem is knowing where? We have a couple of places back east we’re looking at, but we like living in the west as well. The only places that offer greenery and more “normal” weather is the PNW (I know about the rain) and parts of California which is out due to the COL. I so appreciate people like you ren who come back to the thread to share your stories and providing hope to those aspiring to move.

    • Ash says:

      Congrats on getting out Ren and I hope you continue to settle in nicely. It’s so nice being able to enjoy green and wooded spaces again isn’t it? I totally understand what you mean about pride of community and the sense of belonging that is missed in a lot of areas of the Valley.

      As for people returning to Arizona, I was discussing this with my husband recently. We figure for many it’s that “easy” factor of living in AZ. I don’t think much is expected of citizens in the Valley. Anti-social behavior is more of the norm so I think it’s easier to settle into your own bubble and not really worry or care about anything outside of that. Besides, you’re driving license lasts forever lol. Mine wasn’t expiring for something insane like 45 years. Just my opinion on that though.

      Stay warm and remember spring is close and it’s awesome to watch nature “wake up” again and reward you with beautiful greenery and spring flowers.

  139. carrob says:

    Hi all! I did “escape” AZ in 1999 so I can relate to a lot of your stories. I did live in the Phoenix area for six long years. After visiting a friend who was going to grad school at ASU back in 1992, I ended up driving out there in an old Honda Accord (with no air conditioning I might add) piled with what little possessions I owned and about $5000 in cash in May, 1993. Yes, like many others, I initially loved the desert scenery, the cacti and the palm trees, the mountains and the expansive skies. “Remember, everything is nice on a vacation,” my parents had warned me. I was in my twenties and was impulsive and wanted a change. Ahh, the adventurous nature of youth…Despite my experience, I am still glad I moved there and experience it.

    I must be truthful though…the fact that I was working menial jobs at the time and had little money and no family out there shaped my experience. I do agree with other posters however; I did discover that people I met and dealt with were a combination of rude, aloof and standoffish, passive-aggressive, fake or introverted. Yes, people are there from all over the country and the world, so I suppose that this is a trait that becomes a defense mechanism if not already part of ones’ personality. I think that there are a lot of unhappy people there overall. I agree with ren, I believe that many people moved to AZ with the idea that it would either solve all their current problems in life (escapism rarely works) or that AZ would be some kind of desert/mountain Utopia. Of course that is not true at all either!

    I have live in the Treasure Coast area of Florida and back to the Northeast since 1999. I must admit, I did miss rain, water and greenery. I remember the first rainstorm in Florida since I moved there was literally a joyous moment for me. I think I cried actually…Having a small lake behind my condo was calming as it was always filled with herons and egrets and ducks and turtles. To me the colors of green (grass and trees) and blue (water and rain) is good for one’s soul and spirit. And the fact that people in my community, in the supermarket, etc. would often say “hello” or wave or smile was also very comforting. I found driving and day to day tasks in AZ made me anxious as people were often rude or confrontational.

    I must admit that after 20 years after leaving AZ I was actually thinking of returning. Now that I have absolutely no family left, I was thinking (only in the beginning stages) contemplating the pros and cons. I do miss the sunshine and warmth after 6 years in the Northeast. I suffer from depression/SAD and the thought of living up here another year is not realistic. My choice is between Phoenix area and Southeast FL. My friend in AZ (the only person I still communicate with from when I lived there) is working overtime to try and persuade me to return. He lives in central Tempe. He is a loner type like me and says this place actually “fits our personality.” I am in a better place since I lived there in the 1990s. I am now in my 50s and have a decent career in healthcare, make decent money, and have money in the bank.
    I came to this thread to remind me of why I should overlook AZ for my future. I think I will visit Phoenix in person and stay with my friend before I make a permanent decision.

    Thanks for keeping this blog going…

    • Ash says:

      Interesting read Carrob. I moved from AZ last year after living there over 10 years. The way you described the people from your time there 20 years ago is spot on from my very recent experience. I just told my husband the other day that I noticed I’m not in a constant angry mood such as I felt living in AZ. Just as you mentioned, daily tasks like shopping and driving triggered anxiety and anger for me. I got to the place where I only left the house when I absolutely had to.

      Perhaps your experience would differ now since you are in a different stage in life and, from your description, in a better place financially and career wise. It might be helpful to consider why you left AZ in the first place. If you can, spend time in all the places you are considering. That might make the decision a lot easier. Best wishes on whatever you decide.

  140. carrob says:

    I must add to my previous comment that I have also been contemplating the Pacific Northwest. Perfect place for a loner personality, I think. I have researched specifically the areas outside Portland OR, Eugene OR, and Olympia WA. Anyone on this blog with any experience with those areas versus AZ would compare and comment? My only fears are the high costs, gloomy winters, and earthquake risk (both local faults and the dreaded Cascadia Subduction Zone). I know, I know, life is a gamble!

    I especially hear how friendly Eugene is. I visited last year with a friend and liked the environment; However, we flew into Seattle and basically sped down to our final destination of San Francisco with little in depth exploration.

    It seems like many people I did meet from the PNW in AZ did comment on how much friendlier people in the PNW were compared to most spots in AZ.


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